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Thread: Keep the Vision

  1. #1
    Telaran
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    Default Keep the Vision

    Ok, so I'm reading a lot of QQ posts lately. Upon reading these it hit me, people are doing what they've done in every game. They aren't happy with a class dynamic or a class ability and they complain without seeing the whole picture.

    For example, just read a post about tanks and how warriors and clerics play different and may not pull the same amount of threat. Who cares honestly, they provide different functions and sure they both can tank, but was it the vision of the design team for rift clerics would be the best tanks or fill ins? Most likely fill ins.

    Another example about rogue stealth abilities. First off this is a specialty of the rogue class and they give up other abilities and functions to get the "improved" version, wither wise they can only stealth for like 30 seconds. If can't see a stealth character, maybe that was by design. If you don't like seeing them, play a class/sole that can see them, they exist... by design.

    One final one, people QQing about healers. You do realize that most healers are designed to heal. They are the opposite of what every DPS class is. If you PvP and you are annoyed that you can't kill a healer, to bad, they are doing what they are designed to do. The fact of the matter is that they can be controlled by stuns, fears, silences, and other CC effects. Heck you can even stick a high DPS resource on them and have them focus heals on themselves. Once again this was by design.

    That all said it doesn't mean that classes aren't unbalanced in some way or another. But only through slow, calm, and controlled changes that keeps class/flavor will ensure the long lasting fun of Rift. I hope the design and development team can see through all the complaining and stay true to their original vision. Because the game is fun because of the plethora of class designs and flavors.

    If I wanted everyone to be the same... for rotations, spells, skills, abilities, etc. I would play WoW, they have done a fine job nerfing heals so they can't survive DPS damage, make sure all classes have the same spell rotation, and DPS all acts the same. Which I will remind you was part of why Rift had a successful launch.

    I hope Trion keeps true to their vision of Rift and don't let the 10% of loud folks ruin it for the other 90% who don't speak up.
    Last edited by Raudim; 07-29-2011 at 08:11 AM.

  2. #2
    Telaran Gericho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raudim View Post
    Ok, so I'm reading a lot of QQ posts lately. Upon reading these it hit me, people are doing what they've done in every game. They aren't happy with a class dynamic or a class ability and they complain without seeing the whole picture.

    For example, just read a post about tanks and how warriors and clerics play different and may not pull the same amount of threat. Who cares honestly, they provide different functions and sure they both can tank, but was it the vision of the design team for rift clerics would be the best tanks or fill ins? Most likely fill ins.

    Another example about rogue stealth abilities. First off this is a specialty of the rogue class and they give up other abilities and functions to get the "improved" version, wither wise they can only stealth for like 30 seconds. If can't see a stealth character, maybe that was by design. If you don't like seeing them, play a class/sole that can see them, they exist... by design.

    One final one, people QQing about healers. You do realize that most healers are designed to heal. They are the opposite of what every DPS class is. If you PvP and you are annoyed that you can't kill a healer, to bad, they are doing what they are designed to do. The fact of the matter is that they can be controlled by stuns, fears, silences, and other CC effects. Heck you can even stick a high DPS resource on them and have them focus heals on themselves. Once again this was by design.

    That all said it doesn't mean that classes aren't unbalanced in some way or another. But only through slow, calm, and controlled changes that keeps class/flavor will ensure the long lasting fun of Rift. I hope the design and development team can see through all the complaining and stay true to their original vision. Because the game is fun because of the plethora of class designs and flavors.

    If I wanted everyone to be the same... for rotations, spells, skills, abilities, etc. I would play WoW, they have done a fine job nerfing heals so they can't survive DPS damage, make sure all classes have the same spell rotation, and DPS all acts the same. Which I will remind you was part of why Rift had a successful launch.

    I hope Trion keeps true to their vision of Rift and don't let the 10% of loud folks ruin it for the other 90% who don't speak up.
    Perfectly said. I couldn't have said it better. Unfortunately, I don't believe Rift intends on taking the slow and stable route. With each gear improvement they will be forced to adjust.
    Last edited by Gericho; 07-29-2011 at 08:27 AM.

  3. #3
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gericho View Post
    Perfectly said. I couldn't have said it better. Unfortunately, I don't believe Rift intends on taking the slow and stable route. With each gear improvement they will be forced to adjust.
    Good point, but even gear should be easily balanced so long as they implemented soft caps correctly. Once the average player base is getting to the point where soft caps are completely nullifying the gear gained it is time for a reset by increasing the level cap.

  4. #4
    Rift Chaser Bobopedic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raudim View Post
    For example, just read a post about tanks and how warriors and clerics play different and may not pull the same amount of threat. Who cares honestly, they provide different functions and sure they both can tank, but was it the vision of the design team for rift clerics would be the best tanks or fill ins? Most likely fill ins..
    reads my thread. doesn't understand it. not even a little surprised.
    Last edited by Bobopedic; 07-29-2011 at 08:51 AM.
    Hiphop - Cleric
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    Rift Chaser Saralene's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raudim View Post
    For example, just read a post about tanks and how warriors and clerics play different and may not pull the same amount of threat. Who cares honestly, they provide different functions and sure they both can tank, but was it the vision of the design team for rift clerics would be the best tanks or fill ins? Most likely fill ins.
    This is the only part of your post that bothers me. I think it was the "vision" of Trion for all the tanking souls to be able to tank all content, not just be "fill ins."
    Saralene - Cleric || Wolfsbane

  6. #6
    Telaran Gericho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raudim View Post
    Good point, but even gear should be easily balanced so long as they implemented soft caps correctly. Once the average player base is getting to the point where soft caps are completely nullifying the gear gained it is time for a reset by increasing the level cap.
    Yes I agree. That would be the only solution to a very long term problem.

  7. #7
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobopedic View Post
    reads my thread. doesn't understand it. not even a little surprised.
    I understood it, but I don't agree with you. You are comparing two completely different classes. One class has a single soul dedicated to tanking, against another that has four souls dedicated to tanking. How can you not say that cleric isn't a fill in? Clerics decent tanks, maybe they don't handle agro as well, but shouldn't the warrior class be the best option for tanking? Clerics can preform support functions while tanking, such as group heals, battle rez's, and group buffs (depending on the build).

    Look at mages and the chloromancer role. It heals and does well, but in no way is it as good as cleric. I know... I play both. It has its strengths just like the justicar, but it is one soul compared to three souls the cleric has. Given this a cleric should be able to build and out preform on heals just based on the fact that it has more ability and talent options.

    A lot of people say, give chloro a heal spell with no cool down. This would destroy the flavor of the class. Just like your other post was discussing agro. The thing is, that every person has the option of playing the class they want to. We all have a role to play and we all fit in to a group setting equally as far as responsibilities and contributions go. Each class and soul doesn't and shouldn't excel in the same way. That is what gives each class its flavor. If they did, what would be the point of rolling a warrior, why not give warriors group heals since justicar's have it? etc

    This goes towards everything out there, each class should not have the same strengths. That is what makes the game fun. Some may disagree, but that is why I'm saying Trion should only give so much attention to the 10% of the vocal population.

    Note: I know paladin's can do some healing, but still not as effective as justicars.
    Last edited by Raudim; 07-30-2011 at 10:18 AM.

  8. #8
    Champion of Telara Elric-merren's Avatar
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    Okay i want to say that i agree keeping the idea of class distintion and uniqueness is nice and should be kept the best tthat it can be. Now with that said if the idea of having two or even three tanks being within a descent margin of each other, but yet also keeping thier select strengths that are better then others is ruining this vision i am sorry but you might be blind atleast to what i see of the vision. WIth any change that is not just devs standardizing abilities between the three tanks it will stilll keep the tanks distinct from each other, since hwo you tank wither thru damage, healing or shields/buffs has not changed. All that was changed is that you either have your modifiers adjusted up/down to place you better inline with the other tanks. Also i will say that no tank cleric, warrior, or rogue should be the only main tank choice ever for any instance/raid, that should be more based on the skill and or knowledge of the person that is using the tank.

    Now warriors are the versitility tank really they are a swiss army knife for tanking, but with that i am sorry they should be more of the fill in since iwht all that versitility they should lose some of their stength as main tank. Comparing to a cleric or rogue tank they have one tanking soul where they have to specalize and excell at thier tanking and the fights they are built for since their choices are limited compared to a warrior. NOw this idea does have many things that are good in that if the cleric or rogue either does not want to tank or cann't come the warrior can pick up the role/spot without much issue at all, compared to a cleric or rgue doing the same if that warrior has the same happen is not as easy. THis is hwo i would like it to be since all three are in line and balanced since one tank can tank any encounter within a good margin of the tank that was built for that fight, but either of the other two tanks can fill the opisite tank's role as easy compared to a warrior.

    I want to see more souls as well combos be made viable and unique in both pve and pvp, but not so viable (op) that they dominate like pallies did in wow or other classes from mmos that became far too powerful. THough i will say this is going to happen as it is easy to slowly increase power of souls/classes, but not all changes go well or work correctly.

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