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Thread: Trion it's time to balance all classes around 3 of the 4 roles

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    General of Telara Siegmund's Avatar
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    Default Trion it's time to balance all classes around 3 of the 4 roles

    Cleric - 4 roles atm
    Rogue - 3 roles
    Mage - 3 roles
    Warrior - 2 roles.

    Cleric - Make reparation and DoL into 35+ root abilities and remove the "support" aspect of clerics and buff the tanking (magic mitigation and overall threat).

    Rogue - Some tweaks to tanking to improve threat and aoe.

    Mage - Minor tweaks to healing and support

    Warrior - Completely redo warlord as a true support tree. Add some healing abilities and move the good buffs way down into the root to make a 35+ build required for true support (spotters orders). Also nerf overall threat.

    Basically make each class fulfill 3 roles.

    Cleric - tank healing dps.
    Rogue - tank dps support.
    Mage - dps healing support.
    Warrior - tank dps support.

    This would leave 3 "equal" tanking classes, 3 equal support classes and 2 equal healing classes. Obviously that is one less healing class but in keeping with 3 roles each unless someone totally lost dps it would again require 4 roles for a single class.

    One could make a warrior a healer "God dammit HEAL I said!!!" *Siegmund has gained 2000 hp" but it would be tricky to keep it from being too silly. Maybe a warrior "chemist" would work but support seems better overall.

    Even if the classes that have 3 trees dedicated to a certain role are better, it should still be close, not the gaps we have now.

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    Sez
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    Warrior - Physical Dmg Tank, Magical Damage Tank, Multi-mob tank, Support DPS, Pure DPS.


    I think warriors are fine, and you need to stop basing your ideas around T2 experts...
    Sez is now Zes on Dayblind

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    Quote Originally Posted by Siegmund View Post
    Warrior - Completely redo warlord as a true support tree. Add some healing abilities and move the good buffs way down into the root to make a 35+ build required for true support (spotters orders). Also nerf overall threat.
    No. Just because you don't like/use/understand Warlord doesn't mean that it should be gutted to fit what you think it should look like. As it currently stands it is an important part of many serious end-game tank builds, and not just because of Spotter's Order and Battlefield Awareness.
    Last edited by Heguo; 07-28-2011 at 12:40 PM.

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    General of Telara Siegmund's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heguo View Post
    No. Just because you don't like/use/understand Warlord doesn't mean that it should be gutted to fit what you think it should look like. As it currently stands it is an important part of many serious end-game tank builds, and not just because of Spotter's Order and Battlefield Awareness.
    1. It's mostly because of Spotters and Battle. Any deep warlord build is very situational (PvP) at best.

    2. The description of Warlord is about buffing more then being part of tanking builds (and handing out to very strong buffs with very little investment).

    3. It would not gut Warlord in any way. It would remove it from tanking builds and make it a support/dps build. All the buffs would be there, you just could not have your cake and tank with it too.


    Generally there is more separation between roles for the other classes but in effect a lot of what would be part of the support role (buffs and healing) is built into the tanking trees.

    Basically atm clerics bring all 4 roles sorta and warrior bring 3 wrapped up into 2. It's a bit on the silly side.

    All classes in what they bring role was should be fairly close with the edge to classes that have multiple roles designed for it. It really does not happen atm.

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    Rift Master Spyrit's Avatar
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    Cleric doesn't have a role that is by definition a support soul. The hybrid role you are referring to is a dps/healer, it is not support, it's a healing role. A support role is one that buffs and debuffs, Bard and Achron, and at one time Warlord, are true support souls.

    Cleric has only 3 roles not four, the only way a cleric can queue for support is by putting 22 points into Justicar, cannot queue as support with a xcar build.

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    Champion of Telara Elric-merren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sez View Post
    Warrior - Physical Dmg Tank, Magical Damage Tank, Multi-mob tank, Support DPS, Pure DPS.


    I think warriors are fine, and you need to stop basing your ideas around T2 experts...
    This i agree with a tank type archetype they are pretty fine having three tanking areas they can both tank well in any build, and yet also if they specc just to excell in this tanking they become nearly the best in that situation. Noiw i will say that a Cleric should be more viable then they are right now, but also i think that warlord should be adjusted to become more of a support soul as it is worded right now. The reason i say this is more that if you look thru the tree and roots of it there is alot of support skillsthat are really powerful, but also their is alot of threat tanking as well as dps based abilities. I would keep things like the tauntds as well as the threat reduction abbilities, but lose the threat bonus that is on all of the abilities so that they could be used in a dps/supportive combo better.

    Now i would not want warriors to be nerfed in any form since in all if we had warriros nerfed overall it would just bring up cleric's as well as other classes being closer overall. Honestly if you did nerf warriors right now it would hurt everyone since that would lower the dps as well as tanking by a good amount, which would make content alot harder as well as then just be back to where it was before the nerf. Now if you buffed other speccs to bring them up to par or close to par with the other souls in their role, that would make it so that overall more choices and souls could be used in content. As i said before the only soul in warrior achetype that might be good to overall rework to a support soul would be the warlord soul since it already feels and is worded to be a support soul.

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    Plane Walker
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    what kind of numbers are clerics pushing to even qualify as dps?

    Yes, they can queue for it but the other 3 classes will always do better. Well that was my understanding

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    Plane Touched Matsy's Avatar
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    Ranged dps for warriors please, everyone has it, why not us?

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    Shield of Telara kidbs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matsy View Post
    Ranged dps for warriors please, everyone has it, why not us?
    Mages don't have melee dps so they are kind of the opposite end of the coin.
    Bokor - Cleric (Warrior Priest)

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    Plane Touched Matsy's Avatar
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    Mages have no viable means of having melee dps, apart from a battle mage type of class, which would require a whole different soul.
    Warrior already have ranged options, but they aren't viable, also warriors are relevant in history, spear throwers etc.
    Last edited by Matsy; 07-29-2011 at 06:02 AM.

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    Ascendant Eughe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Siegmund View Post
    Cleric - 4 roles atm
    [...]

    Cleric - Make reparation and DoL into 35+ root abilities and remove the "support" aspect of clerics and buff the tanking (magic mitigation and overall threat).
    [...]

    Basically make each class fulfill 3 roles.

    Cleric - tank healing dps
    [...]
    correct me if I'm wrong but...reparation does currently heal along with dol amirite?
    So how does that fall under the support aspect and not the heal aspect?

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    Rift Disciple
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    You are right with repertations healing along with DoL, but when I hear support, I think buffs/debuffs whic cleric does not have. Off healing is not the support; if it was, then all cleric healing souls should queue as support, which they can't.
    Last edited by alshara; 07-29-2011 at 06:24 AM.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Siegmund View Post
    Cleric - 4 roles atm
    Rogue - 3 roles
    Mage - 3 roles
    Warrior - 2 roles.

    Cleric - Make reparation and DoL into 35+ root abilities and remove the "support" aspect of clerics and buff the tanking (magic mitigation and overall threat).

    Rogue - Some tweaks to tanking to improve threat and aoe.

    Mage - Minor tweaks to healing and support

    Warrior - Completely redo warlord as a true support tree. Add some healing abilities and move the good buffs way down into the root to make a 35+ build required for true support (spotters orders). Also nerf overall threat.

    Basically make each class fulfill 3 roles.

    Cleric - tank healing dps.
    Rogue - tank dps support.
    Mage - dps healing support.
    Warrior - tank dps support.

    This would leave 3 "equal" tanking classes, 3 equal support classes and 2 equal healing classes. Obviously that is one less healing class but in keeping with 3 roles each unless someone totally lost dps it would again require 4 roles for a single class.

    One could make a warrior a healer "God dammit HEAL I said!!!" *Siegmund has gained 2000 hp" but it would be tricky to keep it from being too silly. Maybe a warrior "chemist" would work but support seems better overall.

    Even if the classes that have 3 trees dedicated to a certain role are better, it should still be close, not the gaps we have now.
    If you think Trion has anywhere near the ability to do this, youre on crack. I would settle for mages and clerics doing comparable dps to rogues and wars so that they can raid w/o being a buff ***** or healing, and cleric magic mitigation obviously needs a boost (seriously, WTF Trion)
    Last edited by Madmortigan; 07-29-2011 at 06:29 AM.

  14. #14
    Champion of Telara Elric-merren's Avatar
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    For a melee mage i would see something like a spellslade or mageknight almost. Though the mage would use almost nothing but elemental strilkes like a rift blade as well as afew clsoe range moderately powerful spells that are either instant to 1 second cast times. FOr their charge abilities they could range from aoes that center on the user to a charging spell that you press once to start charging up via draining your charge bar, and then which would fire when you hit it the second time. Also i would make the none charge abilities moderately weak, and being more of a way to generating charge to use the far more powerful charge based attacks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Siegmund View Post
    1. It's mostly because of Spotters and Battle. Any deep warlord build is very situational (PvP) at best.

    2. The description of Warlord is about buffing more then being part of tanking builds (and handing out to very strong buffs with very little investment).

    3. It would not gut Warlord in any way. It would remove it from tanking builds and make it a support/dps build. All the buffs would be there, you just could not have your cake and tank with it too.


    Generally there is more separation between roles for the other classes but in effect a lot of what would be part of the support role (buffs and healing) is built into the tanking trees.

    Basically atm clerics bring all 4 roles sorta and warrior bring 3 wrapped up into 2. It's a bit on the silly side.

    All classes in what they bring role was should be fairly close with the edge to classes that have multiple roles designed for it. It really does not happen atm.

    Have you read anything about warrior tanking, or are you just picking the soul you know the least about to fill in your suggestion? Deep Warlord is extremely useful for raiding. It has several unique buffs that no one else can bring, the best AOE tanking in the warrior calling (even after a cooldown is added to SO) and leaves enough points to spec for good mitigation in other souls. It's already a support/tank mixed in.

    Your suggestion does indeed gut the Warlord soul to rebuild it into something that you think it should be instead. I'm in opposition to that because it is already a very important part of my raid tanking build and if the guides and posts in the warrior forums are any indication, there are many more like me.

    The concept you're talking about isn't necessarily a bad one. I'm for anything that gives all the callings more flexibility, but Warlord is constantly on the receiving end of suggestions like this because many players don't know what it's capable of. If you look closely, I think you'll find that we already have a flexibility that makes warriors very desirable to groups, and that's the fact that we're the only calling who can tailor our tanking builds to suit specific encounters much more easily than the other callings can. I'd rather see Trion add another soul to each calling instead of seeing them completely change the function of this one.

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