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Thread: who should be top dps and why? Tell trion your thoughts :D

  1. #1
    Telaran
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    Default who should be top dps and why? Tell trion your thoughts :D

    alright so my guildy and I were discussing this so i thought it sparked up such a conversation that I thought that I'd bring it to the forums. State your opinion while justifying if you wish.

    My argument:
    melee rogues should be top dps. They should be squishy so they are melee glass cannons at the cost of defense using stuns/silences/other shutdowns and cooldowns to survive.
    next would be mages: Currently mage dps has unmacroable 6-13 button rotations + charge management to do well not including the potions and trinkets everyone uses.(put bloom higher in the tree btw around 16 points >.>)
    ranged rogues need to be next relying on positioning to stay alive and having slightly complicated rotations.

    I'd like to use warriors across the board just under ranged rogues in exchange for seeing they're survivability buffed. 1.3 warriors are what i'd invision and assasin to be as far as damage. Talking to warriors on my server and doing wfs/dungeons with them they do poorly defending themselves beyond the armor mitigation as dps. In my opinion a warrior should win through debilitaiton and disabling rather then only brute force. If a warrior is going to be about brute force he deserves to get squished.I invision warriors to be more about tactics then macros.

    clerics need to be last I sadly say as my favorite 50 is a cleric. They need to be maintained as group support types who serve where needed. Melee clerics should be higher then ranged since they tend to take more damage. Then under that ranged. I see clerics being defensive in nature effecting the battlefield with buff/debuffs and medium- short cd nukes.

  2. #2
    Rift Chaser
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    why should rogues deal more damage than warriors? warriors are just as squishy in melee range. Having an extra 1k or less armor, and hp will not save you when/if you pull aggro, or get infront of a cleave. Warriors dont have the option of going ranged also, which all rogues can do. I dont think the current state of warrior dps is fair, but i dont think they should be 3rd on the dps tier, as apart from tanking in raids, that is all we can do.

  3. #3
    Ascendant Marrocco's Avatar
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    Top DPS should be Pie eating people, just above Waffle eaters. Slightly under them you have your cake eaters, with Pancake eaters holding up the rear.

    However, Ranged Vegans need to parse the absolute lowest. Anybody who turns down a delicious steak really needs to re-think things.

    Should probably make sure Ranged Vegans can't macro their rotations at all.

  4. #4
    Ascendant
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    Revolutionary thought:

    All callings that spec deeply into ther DPS souls should put out about the same DPS.

    Range/Melee and Armor Type shouldn't figure in. Those things should offset themselves. Lower armor should have more kiting ability, and melee should have better armor.

    The problem with saying any one calling should be DPS king is that the other classes then become irrelevant for DPS.
    The Roguepocalypse is upon us!

  5. #5
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    The amount of damage a class or calling does should be entirely dependent on the amount of skill that person has and the mechanics of the battle. Ranged should be favored in range-friendly encounters. Melee should be favored in melee-friendly encounters. No one should be punished just because of what calling they invested in. A cleric shouldn't be punished in DPS or tanking just because three of their souls can heal. A Mage shouldn't be punished in healing just because they have 5 DPS souls.

    Any mechanic that you're supposed to avoid is going to kill you, if not outright, then within a few seconds if you're not paying attention. So the fact that a Warrior has more armor than a Mage really doesn't account towards much in a PvE environment where most of the damage is unmitigated. Melee shouldn't be rewarded with more damage because they have to run out of certain effects; the parses will reflect that.

  6. #6
    Ascendant Marrocco's Avatar
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    In all seriousness:

    DPS Potential should equal Rotational Complexity minus Class Flexibility plus survivability.

    Meaning:

    A Shaman should not be top damage because you press the same button over and over.

    However:

    A Shaman with a Mage's rotation should do strong damage, provided they can't heal at all while specced shaman (not the case).

    Player skill should trump some stupid hierarchy though.

  7. #7
    Ascendant
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    In a perfect world everyone should do approximately the same DPS. All that should change is how many viable DPS specs each class should have. Clerics would have the least options because they have a tanking soul and three healing souls.
    Chronicar Rank 6 mage
    <Squab Squad>

  8. #8
    Zea
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    Every calling should be about even just so noone is forced into a role they don't want to play because their calling is bad at dps.

    Melee should be top dps but only slightly ahead of casters.For example if you played perfect as melee you should be doing 2k dps as a caster you should be doing 1800-1900 dps.

  9. #9
    Telaran
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    Assuming they have absolutely no healing/tanking/support souls in their build, generally every melee should be 100-150 dps ahead of every ranged. I don't care how many tanking souls warriors have or how many healing souls clerics have. If you aren't using them they shouldn't count against you.

    I picked a cleric because they had several fun-looking DPS souls. I'll heal if my guild needs me to, and I do enjoy -icar support, but if I'm not using those abilities why should I be held back?
    Last edited by Tastum; 07-26-2011 at 02:05 PM.

  10. #10
    Prophet of Telara Flaviusx's Avatar
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    Every calling should have the potential to hit number one with at least some combination of their souls.

    Anything else is just special pleading. There is the melee special pleading, the cloth special pleading, the squishiness special pleading, but it's all special pleading by one calling or another to stake a monopoly claim on dps. Every such claim ought to be dismissed out of hand.

  11. #11
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flaviusx View Post
    Every calling should have the potential to hit number one with at least some combination of their souls.

    Anything else is just special pleading. There is the melee special pleading, the cloth special pleading, the squishiness special pleading, but it's all special pleading by one calling or another to stake a monopoly claim on dps. Every such claim ought to be dismissed out of hand.
    The only calling the "melee should be more powerful than range" argument really screws is mages. I should specify that I mean 100-150 more dps on the dummy - in raid situations boss movement and other dps losses for melee should make everything equalize on the meter. Ideally. Of course I know that doesn't happen in game, I'm just talking where things should be.

  12. #12
    XiL
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    I am already the Top DPS in rift and that is fine.
    I was banned for 5 days for triggering the chat filter. I win the internet again.

    http://forums.riftgame.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=617285&dateline=13177  10094

  13. #13
    General of Telara livnthedream's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XiL View Post
    I am already the Top DPS in rift and that is fine.
    is your suspension over already!? btw still waiting for proof instead of your trolling/hearsay. you do know that since your the one who keeps making such grandiose claims the burden of proof lies on you.

    this entire thread is silly and for the most part unfairly biased. as it stands currently the heriarchy is pretty close to as it should be. melee>ranged. most of the current disparities lie in gear/spec/rotation and mechanic abuse. trion are some smart dudes, but im guessing each if these development teams that handle each individual part are no more than 5-10 people at most. when they envision warriors using plate and str based weapons for example with what is probably a different build/rotation to run though sims and balance numbers around that, then us players who drastically outnumber them find using leather and daggers to do too much damage because of whetstones and spotters order throws things out of whack, then they need to fix it.

    player base vs 20-40 devs, who do you think wins? they cant think of everything, and the limited testing that goes on the pts will do very litlle to show some of these changes. even when they become aware then its a choice of how to fix it with both upsetting the smallest amount of people, and honestly at the lowest amount of work for themselves. as it stands look at 1.4. it appears they have done a great job of lessening the gap between casters and melee, and possibly between ranged in general if you look at ranger scaling in the new environment. all in all aslong as all classes have muitiple viable callings (which they do, stop whining about being "competitive" when your pulling almost 3 times the dps required to beat the encounter) then overall the game is in a good place.
    "I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won."

  14. #14
    Plane Walker Dourgen's Avatar
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    Somone will always come out on top. Its inevitable. The goal should be that balance is close enough that you can play the class you want with any combinations of souls that isn't ******ed and be viable and competitive.

    Once you ask who SHOULD be top....you're doing it wrong.
    Thanks for the haircuts.

  15. #15
    General of Telara
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    Every class should do equal DPS. The only thing that should separate the top DPS from the bottom DPS should be the skill of the player and level of gear.

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