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Thread: Help me decide: Paragon vs. Bladedancer

  1. #1
    Soulwalker Feywolf's Avatar
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    Default Help me decide: Paragon vs. Bladedancer

    Yep, complete newbie reporting in.

    I've been messing around since I got Rift about a week ago, but I can't seem to decide... and I thought, why not? There's a forum. I'll ask some existing players.

    As you could probably guess from the title, I'm trying to decide between Paragon and Bladedancer. I've tried both, but I doubt my play experience is an accurate gauge of what either class is like at later levels.

    I know that I should be thinking about whether I should be a warrior or a rogue - but seriously, both seem pretty cool, and a lot of their souls appeal to me. Both are melee. Both can tank or dps, depending on spec. Both have cool looking armor and weapons. So, I'm planning on making my decision based on what I hear about those two in particular.

    I've also garnered from browsing the forums that warriors are apparently performing very well these days, and that they 'may' be in for a nerf some time soon - but since I'm not a hardcore player, these things don't really affect me too much. I play what I find to be enjoyable. Even if I won't top the charts, I'm fine with it as long as I'm not a liability to the party.

    I also like PvP, but I may or may not take it seriously, depending on how fun I find the system once I'm in the higher levels. But it is a factor, for sure.

    TL;DR: Trying to choose between Bladedancer and Paragon, and wanted to hear experienced players' general impressions/thoughts/opinions about the two.

    Thanks in advance!

  2. #2
    Telaran Cal_KC's Avatar
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    If you're going for PvP roll a Cleric or Mage because Heal/DPS trumps pretty much anything else. 4-5 healer/dps can kick the stuffing out of any premade you come against.
    "I always wanted to play a PvP game where nobody dies." - Rift PvP

  3. #3
    Rift Disciple
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    Paragon>Blade Dancer.
    Whitejackale
    <Iconic Fatality>

  4. #4
    RIFT Guide Writer Milen's Avatar
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    Warriors have 4 offensive souls and 4 tanking souls. In PvP, they are currently the best damage dealers. Tanking in PvP has very limited uses, but they have a solid and strong PvP tanking build. However, that build is accessible only at the later stages of the game (you need to be level 50 and to have PvP rank 3). Warriors are the only class that needs to be 20 meters away from the enemy to start fighting, and they need to be in melee range to be the most effective. That makes them the most gear and healer dependent class, because they are always in the thick of it. Mages and Clerics have a 30-meter range and Marksman Rogues shoot from 35 meters, while melee Rogues typically have stealth. Well-geared Warriors are currently very powerful in PvP and I don't think this will change even with eventual nerfs to Paragon.

    In PvE, they are the best damage dealers together with Rogues. They are also the most solid tanks - ironically enough, once again together with Rogues. Warriors tank better large groups of enemies and are stronger against physical damage. Rogues tank better single targets and magical damage. The differences aren't that huge, however, from what I've gathered, a lot of raiding guilds prefer Rogues as main tanks for bosses.

    Rogues have much more versatility. With a Rogue, you can play: melee DPS (with or without stealth), ranged DPS (again with or without stealth, although stealthing options are more limited), support/heal (Bard), tank. In PvP, they currently deal a bit less damage than Warriors but they have much more utility and versatility. The most predominant roles you'll see are Assassins (melee stealth killers, best suited for small-scale combat), Marksmen (probably the most effective role in PvP, good for group combat) and Bards. There are also solid builds with Nightblade (it is a DPS class with stealth and a 20-meter range). The tanking Rogues have a lot of mobility and survivability, which makes them the best choice for completing objectives in some warfronts. I've rarely seen melee DPS rogues without stealth in PvP and these builds seem to be, overall, less effective. Overall, you can do just fine with a Rogue in PvP, but currently I see Rogues topping damage done/killing blow charts much rarely than Warriors. There are some very well geared and skilled rogues who always do exceptionally well, of course.

    Lastly: have it in mind that Trion have been known to do wild balance swings with their patches and you never know which class or soul will get nerfed into oblivion for a month or two and which one will receive Godmode. Things are pretty fickle.
    Last edited by Milen; 07-20-2011 at 09:31 PM.
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  5. #5
    Soulwalker Feywolf's Avatar
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    Thanks for the replies, dudes.

    As of now, I think I might be leaning towards rogue, if just for the versatility and utility. Also, I just found out about the direwolf pet... man, that sounds badass. I may mess around with ranger, even though I'm usually not a huge fan of ranged dps. But it's mainly the utility/versatility thing.

    I usually play warriors, and I found that a lot of the time I wished I had more things to do than just hit stuff and then die. They're so straightforward - which makes them what they are - but yeah. Sometimes in PvP I'd feel like I was just a sentient bullet. Run in, cause as much damage as possible, die, rinse & repeat.

    ...actually, 'sentient bullet' sounds kinda awesome.

  6. #6
    RIFT Guide Writer Milen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feywolf View Post
    Thanks for the replies, dudes.

    As of now, I think I might be leaning towards rogue, if just for the versatility and utility. Also, I just found out about the direwolf pet... man, that sounds badass. I may mess around with ranger, even though I'm usually not a huge fan of ranged dps. But it's mainly the utility/versatility thing.

    I usually play warriors, and I found that a lot of the time I wished I had more things to do than just hit stuff and then die. They're so straightforward - which makes them what they are - but yeah. Sometimes in PvP I'd feel like I was just a sentient bullet. Run in, cause as much damage as possible, die, rinse & repeat.

    ...actually, 'sentient bullet' sounds kinda awesome.
    If you want more than being a melee wrecking ball in PvP, I definitely recommend any other class. They all have more options than us.
    Last edited by Milen; 07-20-2011 at 10:47 PM.
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  7. #7
    Soulwalker Feywolf's Avatar
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    Ok, I've started leveling a rogue.

    Another question; I read about this Bladedancer/Riftstalker build that makes use of the synergy between BD aoe killing, Rift Scavenger & Combat Culmination. It sounded pretty cool, so I'm planning on going with that once I'm in the 30s; but would be a good build beforehand? I've heard a lot about that ranger/marksman/bard build that sics pigs on mobs, shoots from afar and sings for aoe + healing... but that doesn't really appeal to me since it doesn't sound like much fun.

    Should I go NB/Sin for quick killing one at a time? Or is ranger & pet the only way to go at early levels?
    (afterthought: maybe I should be asking this in the rogue forums now that I've decided to be one...)

  8. #8
    Champion of Telara Elric-merren's Avatar
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    I personally ran a bladedancer/rift/ranger specc for awhile which was fun but i switched to a bladedancer/ranger/sin build like this <a href="http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=1MVNM.Vi0Ahs0o0dz.E00fu0ksz.0VR">Bladed ancer (32) / Ranger (26) / Assassin (8)</a>. I found this build to help alot since I can stealth and cc on large groups if i want to go for single targets (being lazy), or I can divert rage to my pig while i use trick shot to pull a group.

    In instances when it is a aoe pack. i use trick shot till i have 5 cp then head shot, then flash of steal into the group. When in the group if it is large like some of the ones in rd i use blade tempo, then dancing blade, when the bladedance is done i chain as best as i can then rain of arrows. If it is a singel target fight such as bosses, i use shadow fire, splinter shot, and then quick shot for the 5 cp to use headshot. After the head shot i flash to the mob, punture, and keen strike before either using duantless strike if no one can apply the 5% crit bopnor, or deadly strike to get up deadly dance buff. I normally use double coup on bosses, and if possible blade tempo as well.

    I noprmally make sure to keep a bleed up which is either from punture when close range, or from splinter shot. Keeping up beastal fury up thru headshot though it has a duration of 1 min so that should not be hard, also all of the ranger attacks largely have a min range of 3 meters. At times i will try to keep piercing shot for the armor reduction buff, though io am pretty sure it is not that big a deal.

  9. #9
    Shadowlander
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    One thing worth mentioning, is that warriors have a 1.5 second GCD(global cooldown) and rogues have a 1.0 second GCD. I imagine you picked paragon and bladedancer because they're advertised as dual wield, fast attacking playstyles. I can't handle the 1.5 GCD of a warrior because it's just way too slow in my opinion, so that's why I chose rogue

  10. #10
    Sword of Telara
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    The skill ceiling on rogues is quite high. You can fight 5 rogues with the same spec and same gear, you'll roll 3 of them, have a good match with #4, and be obliterated by the 5th.

    If you consider yourself a good player, then you can go quite far as a rogue. If you're ok, you'll do fine and nobody will complain. If you're terrible, the whole world will know it, especially when tanking.
    Last edited by Corebot; 07-22-2011 at 08:21 AM.

  11. #11
    Soulwalker Feywolf's Avatar
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    Awesome. Thanks guys - I'm very much set on rogue now.

    Yes, I was drawn to the dual wielding, and I didn't actually know that about rogues having a shorter gcd. That's quite a huge difference; I'm surprised I didn't notice it.

    Also, having skill matter is a huge draw for me. Any class is dependent on skill, of course - but sometimes, playing a warrior feels a bit too gear dependent, since I'm just trying to mash out 3-4 big attacks before I die and hoping some of them crit.

    I'm hoping/assuming that rogue is a bit more strategic, and requires more planning and reacting than 'get close and hit them'.

  12. #12
    Shadowlander
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    All I can say is for warrior levelling at least in the lower levels, it's alot more painful.

    Rogues get bard/ranger, which is nigh indestructable in the lower levels, and marks/ranger, which can be used to solo many things other classes struggle with (soloing even-level rifts/etc)

    Warriors are alot easier to do well with as a tank, but as to paragon vs bladedancer specifically I'd say paragon all the way.

  13. #13
    Champion of Telara Elric-merren's Avatar
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    It is kinda funny but it is also more of do you want to hit alot of proccing abilities? I ask only since paragon is more about fallow up attacks, which is saddly not as much used in bladedancer. Bladedancer is more about reactive attacks from dodging as well as parrying attacks, such as resprisal or disengage as well as abilities like turning the tide and strike back. I would call bladedancer more of a reactive soul and paragon a more proactive soul trully. They are actually when i looked at them pretty different fundementally, mostly from the use of fallow up attacks though.

  14. #14
    Soulwalker
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    uh yeah only thing about bd is that the follow up attack ruins the animation of the first attack. then you get your 31 pointer and that sorta takes out the regular attacks altogether

  15. #15
    Champion of Telara Elric-merren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highpower View Post
    uh yeah only thing about bd is that the follow up attack ruins the animation of the first attack. then you get your 31 pointer and that sorta takes out the regular attacks altogether
    What fallow up attacks? We have reactive strike back attacks such as reprisal, disengage, but only other attack that would be like a fallow up attack for a bd is quick strike or percission strike, although i hae never have had these ruin the animation when i use them. If you are talking about bladedance which is a aoe that is more of a large scale aoe, but has a 2 min (not sure might be less or more.) imo it is the best looking aoe in rifts right now. I played a 32 point para and i did like the style of it and how the fallow up attacks works in the system, although like i said trully bladedancer as well as paragon are not that simular actually. Both are a good soul and fun to play but the playstyle of each will lend to different players.

    Paragon i find feels more like a twitch combat sou since you are trying to hit the fallow up attacks to max dps out, but then you look at bladedancer which is more of a stratagy based soul that you have to watch what and where you use yoru cd strikes (like desengage, siassemble, flash of steel as well as rythmic abilities). THere is nothing wrong with either of these souls at all trully i wish we had more of them, and also a soul that used just a single blade for fighting since i do get tired of dw as a rogues, or using a 2-hander as a warrior as well.

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