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Thread: pve dps t2 order?

  1. #1
    Telaran
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    Default pve dps t2 order?

    I am just curious.. all my guildies say their class does less dps then some other class.. the mages say rogues do more, rogues say mages do more.. everyone says war dps does more lol

    I mainly play my war as tank for experts and my cleric for healing them. I dont play dps much so just curious how you would rank 1-4 the classes for strictly dps whether its ranged or melee.

    This is for PVE only. I dont care about PVP so not concerned if one class is op for pvp or not

    is it?
    1war melee
    2rogue melee
    3mage ranged
    4 cleric ranged?

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by mythikal View Post
    I am just curious.. all my guildies say their class does less dps then some other class.. the mages say rogues do more, rogues say mages do more.. everyone says war dps does more lol

    I mainly play my war as tank for experts and my cleric for healing them. I dont play dps much so just curious how you would rank 1-4 the classes for strictly dps whether its ranged or melee.

    This is for PVE only. I dont care about PVP so not concerned if one class is op for pvp or not

    is it?
    1war melee
    2rogue melee
    3mage ranged
    4 cleric ranged?
    It just depends on the players on your server.

    On my server when I dps in pugs as a warrior the only people that come close to my output are a couple of sabo players and one cleric that runs inquisitor. (you should note that I didn't mention other warriors in that sentence either)

    The only player who does more dps than me is a rogue that runs a melee spec, though I've forgotton a couple of times to go check the parser to analyse the abilities used to determine his spec.

    I have the feeling that if I rerolled rogue, mage or cleric my answers would remain the same though.

    Most players don't come to the forums and don't use the statistically proven best dps builds, when you come across the players that do they stand out by a mile.

    Same thing honestly goes with raids.. lot of raiding players don't use the forums and just get the prerequisite stats needed for raids and think they're fine.

    Then other things come into account, player A and B both have the same spec, but player A works the rotation better than player B which can result in a large difference in dps.. then you have gear and the way they have gear set up.. player A sets up going after crit rating, player B goes after attack power.

    It's easy to say I get out dps'd by class xxx, but there's a bunch of reasons why that might be happening and not all of them come down to that actual class being capable of doing more dps than your class.
    Last edited by Anchor; 07-18-2011 at 03:27 PM.

  3. #3
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    Many classes also scale differently, and some perform VERY differently depending on raid buffs being present or not.

    At the T2 level, player skill is going to determine far more than anything else.

    In raids WITH RAID BUFFS, right now it's probably something like:

    1a - Warrior
    1b - Rogue
    2 - Mage
    3 - Cleric
    Raelyn <The Granite Guard> R40 Warrior @ Seastone
    Tomoka <The Granite Guard> R40 Cleric @ Seastone

  4. #4
    Rift Chaser Garethe's Avatar
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    Melee clerics can do more dps than mages with raid buffs atm i believe.

    Hoko-spec rogues are pretty much comparable to para spec warriors i believe and easier to play.
    Guardian: Kalgarr/Berhard/Garethe/Albreacht, The Granite Guard @Seastone
    Defiant: Aelai/Reiniger @Seastone
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xney View Post

    At the T2 level, player skill is going to determine far more than anything else.
    ^ THIS!
    The PLAYER matters FAR more than anything else in this game and most MMOs for that matter. In fact even if you find a player who plays all 4 callings his experience will not necessarily be the same as yours. He may find that his Rogue does the most DPS but you may find that your Warrior does the most. While in theory one spec may have the potential to do the most DPS, in practice the player will make all of the difference.

  6. #6
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    Fully raid buffed with BIS gear:

    1) Warrior/Rogue (I'm not actually sure which is best, both can hit 2100+)
    3) Cleric (Melee only)
    4) Mage

    In T2s, it depends on whether you're talking about just bosses, or clearing it all faster, what the rest of the group setup is, etc. Basically it's a tossup. Whoever is the best player with the best gear will probably win.
    Pessimistick - <Esti Efiu> - Mage - Guardian - Sunrest
    Ippon - <Esti Efiu> - Rogue - Guardian - Sunrest
    Uchimata - <Esti Efiu> - Cleric - Guardian - Sunrest
    Noppi - <Esti Efiu> - Warrior - Guardian - Sunrest
    Ippon - <Spike Flail> - Ner'zhul

  7. #7
    Prophet of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by PessimiStick View Post
    Fully raid buffed with BIS gear:

    1) Warrior/Rogue (I'm not actually sure which is best, both can hit 2100+)
    3) Cleric (Melee only)
    4) Mage

    In T2s, it depends on whether you're talking about just bosses, or clearing it all faster, what the rest of the group setup is, etc. Basically it's a tossup. Whoever is the best player with the best gear will probably win.
    Warriors are 100-200 dps ahead of rogues atm. There are warrior parses of 2160+ without relic weapons floating around. Highest rogue parse is like 2138 I think (and that is with 2 relic weapons).
    Last edited by Poochymama; 07-19-2011 at 07:41 AM.

  8. #8
    RIFT Guide Writer Hokonoso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mythikal View Post
    I am just curious.. all my guildies say their class does less dps then some other class.. the mages say rogues do more, rogues say mages do more.. everyone says war dps does more lol

    I mainly play my war as tank for experts and my cleric for healing them. I dont play dps much so just curious how you would rank 1-4 the classes for strictly dps whether its ranged or melee.

    This is for PVE only. I dont care about PVP so not concerned if one class is op for pvp or not

    is it?
    1war melee
    2rogue melee
    3mage ranged
    4 cleric ranged?
    given starter crafted gear you can buy/craft as soon as you hit 50 and reaching the t2 lvls without stepping foot in a t2, the dps order is

    warrior melee
    cleric melee (they have the most craftable epics, this does not mean they have highest dps, just at this lvl it's higher, they also can wear cloth crafted epics since int is a dps stat as well so they really come out like a bandit when crafting/starting t2s)
    rogue melee (sabodancer scales with crit, not many builds do high dps at this gear lvl as crit is low)
    mage
    rogue range (which 99.9% of starting rogues are)

    verdict? a pug mage > a pug rogue due to rogues playing ranger and marksman, and you cant fail at cleric dps, it is literally 1 button and warriors are the winners by a lot of dps. at starting gear lvls a warrior can hit 850dps, cleric 750dps with mages and rogues failing horribly around 300dps and good ones doing up to 700dps.
    Useful Rogue guides since I don't want to answer 50 billion questions anymore:
    Marksman, Ranger, Nightblade, Blink'Blade, Asstalker, Assdancer, and finally The Hoko Spec™
    Hoko, teaching noobs the way of rogue pve until 12/20/11.

  9. #9
    RIFT Guide Writer Hokonoso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poochymama View Post
    Warriors are 100-200 dps ahead of rogues atm. There are warrior parses of 2160+ without relic weapons floating around. Highest rogue parse is like 2138 I think (and that is with 2 relic weapons).
    i posted the rogue parse, kutsmuffin has weeping edge now and is a good 300dps higher than me i swear, he pulls aggro where i never used to, im guessing he will be at 2500 come this weeks plutonus if he doesnt pull aggro and die.

    incase you are wondering, this puts warriors are #1 by leeps and bounds for dps, since kuts will still gain another 100dps or so by getting a second relic.
    Useful Rogue guides since I don't want to answer 50 billion questions anymore:
    Marksman, Ranger, Nightblade, Blink'Blade, Asstalker, Assdancer, and finally The Hoko Spec™
    Hoko, teaching noobs the way of rogue pve until 12/20/11.

  10. #10
    Prophet of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hokonoso View Post
    i posted the rogue parse, kutsmuffin has weeping edge now and is a good 300dps higher than me i swear, he pulls aggro where i never used to, im guessing he will be at 2500 come this weeks plutonus if he doesnt pull aggro and die.

    incase you are wondering, this puts warriors are #1 by leeps and bounds for dps, since kuts will still gain another 100dps or so by getting a second relic.
    Wow, honestly wasn't expecting that big of a jump. That's a 400 dps jump. At least Rogues are still the best at trash clearing/aoe.

  11. #11
    Telaran
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    my main motivation for this post that a couple of rogues in my guild who both are full t2 geared were telling me that 2 wars were both beating them by a great deal of dps in experts. One was our guild lead and top geared war who mainly tanks but does dps when me or one other war are tanking.. I said well of course he is going to beat you he has at least as much skill and better gear than any of us. But they were complaining because another para war that had just hit 50 in quest greens and a few epic crafted were still very much beating them. I am like you guys are doing it wrong then. I hope I wasnt lying to them when I said that

  12. #12
    Prophet of Telara
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    If a warrior is using one of the top single target builds in the Warrior forums, there is really nothing a rogue can do to beat that warrior besides having much better gear.

    A Fresh lvl 50 warrior with a tanking sigil does 730+ DPS on the dummy self buffed without fervor, which is about 10-20 DPS higher than what a Rogue does with fervor(and a DPS sigil).

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by mythikal View Post
    my main motivation for this post that a couple of rogues in my guild who both are full t2 geared were telling me that 2 wars were both beating them by a great deal of dps in experts. One was our guild lead and top geared war who mainly tanks but does dps when me or one other war are tanking.. I said well of course he is going to beat you he has at least as much skill and better gear than any of us. But they were complaining because another para war that had just hit 50 in quest greens and a few epic crafted were still very much beating them. I am like you guys are doing it wrong then. I hope I wasnt lying to them when I said that
    Well your first statement is certainly true, I would expect a better geared war played by someone with as much skill or more to beat a rogue. As for the "fresh 50 in quest greens and a few epic crafted beating them by a great deal of dps in experts", I would ask the "full t2 geared rogues" for some details. Exactly what gear does this "fresh 50" have, what weapons, what essences? Specificly what fights and zones are we talking about? Are we talking zonewide DSM or trash in IT? How much is his DPS compared to theirs? 1500 vs 1000 or 1000 vs 500? If he really is in greens and crafted blues (i.e. nothing better than T1 and only a few T1 equivalents, including his weapons) and they really are in full T2 including their weapons and source engine and he is beating them 1000 to 500 then yes they are doing something wrong. If on the other hand he is beating them 1500 to 1000 then this "freash 50" is one heck of a good player and you want to keep an eye on him because he is getting the absolute maximum potential out of his character.
    I have personally seen two players with the same calling/spec do 300 and 1200 DPS in the exact same fight. Player skill matters far more than the calling/spec and FAR more than anyone is willing to admit.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hokonoso View Post
    given starter crafted gear you can buy/craft as soon as you hit 50 and reaching the t2 lvls without stepping foot in a t2, the dps order is

    warrior melee
    cleric melee (they have the most craftable epics, this does not mean they have highest dps, just at this lvl it's higher, they also can wear cloth crafted epics since int is a dps stat as well so they really come out like a bandit when crafting/starting t2s)
    rogue melee (sabodancer scales with crit, not many builds do high dps at this gear lvl as crit is low)
    mage
    rogue range (which 99.9% of starting rogues are)

    verdict? a pug mage > a pug rogue due to rogues playing ranger and marksman, and you cant fail at cleric dps, it is literally 1 button and warriors are the winners by a lot of dps. at starting gear lvls a warrior can hit 850dps, cleric 750dps with mages and rogues failing horribly around 300dps and good ones doing up to 700dps.
    So by this analysis there is NO reason to bring neither a Rogue nor a Mage to a T2 Dungeon since a warrior and cleric can fill all of the roles needed MUCH better, correct?

  15. #15
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hokonoso View Post
    given starter crafted gear you can buy/craft as soon as you hit 50 and reaching the t2 lvls without stepping foot in a t2, the dps order is

    warrior melee
    cleric melee (they have the most craftable epics, this does not mean they have highest dps, just at this lvl it's higher, they also can wear cloth crafted epics since int is a dps stat as well so they really come out like a bandit when crafting/starting t2s)
    rogue melee (sabodancer scales with crit, not many builds do high dps at this gear lvl as crit is low)
    mage
    rogue range (which 99.9% of starting rogues are)

    verdict? a pug mage > a pug rogue due to rogues playing ranger and marksman, and you cant fail at cleric dps, it is literally 1 button and warriors are the winners by a lot of dps. at starting gear lvls a warrior can hit 850dps, cleric 750dps with mages and rogues failing horribly around 300dps and good ones doing up to 700dps.
    the rogue ranged spec is not the lowest, because if you take the ranger/assasin spec with macros for you're attack + your pets attack you hit crazy damage, for example my rogue only has T1 wepps and i hit an easy 700+ dps now i would imagine with relic raid gear i could clear 2000 easy.

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