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Thread: Are tanks and healers going to be balanced ?

  1. #1
    Shadowlander
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    Default Are tanks and healers going to be balanced ?

    HI all.

    I am just curious as to what approach Trion is taking to tanking and healing. In EQ, you had a warrior as the MT as he had defensive stance I believe that would last for 40 seconds. This left the SK and Paladin playing second fiddle. In Wow, up until WotLK, you again had the warrior being the MT and Paladins and Druids being at best group tanks.

    In EQ, you had clerics as by far the best healer in game with druids and shamans being relegated to 2nd rate healers. This is was justified by saying that clerics gave up all utility to heal the best. I think this type of mindset has shown to be incorrect as if you want to be a healer first, you basically had no choice in the matter. In WoW, to a lesser extent, priests were initially considered the best healers although the healers were a bit closer in strength.

    Only recently in WoW have they decided to make tanks and healers roughly equal so that players could actually have a choice in their playstyle. I am asking this question because I would like to know if I can get my hopes up of playing a shaman healer or a paladin tank....or if I need to go ahead and surrender and be a Sentinel healer or a "whatever pure tank soul" they announce.

    Im hoping they give players a "real" choice in healing or tanking style that best fits them while knowing that they arent already behind the 8 ball when it comes to healing or tanking power like they were in EQ or WoW.

  2. #2
    Plane Touched Alaraca's Avatar
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    I understand where your coming from, you dont want to be pigeon holed into a specific class, and with the soul system Rift is implementing i dont think you will have that problem... being able to save up to 4 different configurations and having possible combination of i think it was 336 different variations you can in essense build your own tank... and or healer... having a Purifier mixed with a little Sentinal might be a pretty sweet main healer combo... Having a Beastmaster mixed with a Paladin might be an awesome main tank combo.... but then again if those combinations dont work well for the situation then you could always switch build outs on the fly (out of combat ofcourse) and still be a awesome tank or healer... no i dont think you will be forced into playing a specific anything due to the costumization possible within your character... the only thing that will be set in stone is if you wanna be a Tank, there is no doubt your gonna have to be a Warrior calling, if you wanna heal your gonna be a Cleric calling...
    "Few are selected to to gaze into the chasm that gave us our power, most are devoured from within, yet a chosen few have the will to walk away from such discord and torment with the true knowledge of what we serve. Transformed with eyes of pure hatred, of utter disdain, bound to its will, the embodiment of a demon. And I, the greatest of its children, am here to show you true pain..." -Maerawn

  3. #3
    Rift Disciple Hevenly's Avatar
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    it's too soon to tell imo man no one will know till the classes are played.
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  4. #4
    Rift Chaser Ylvelill's Avatar
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    From what they have said so far, balance is not their primary concern because of the 4 spec's each person can have. There will always be what is considered the best of the best for a single situation no matter how much you try to balance though, so this might prove to be the way to go... focus on making things fun and allow people to switch to fill the role needed.

  5. #5
    Plane Walker Perros's Avatar
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    Even when a game's goal is to balance healers and tanks it is usually very difficult to balance classes. The main reason: Devs cannot trust the player's biased opinion. The developers often didn't have enough information to make informed decisions.

    In Rift devs will have a simple metrics based on which soul combination players choose to perform a certain job. If 98% of the tanks use one particular soul then balance is out of whack. If it is 60-40 or 35-25-20-20 then balance is probably pretty good. Players are not stuck with their class and they will automatically evaluate balance by exploring the different soul's capabilities.

  6. #6
    Champion of Telara g0kuenuan's Avatar
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    stuff like this... not even closed beta 1 ... why? :\
    http://forums.riftgame.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=1282&dateline=1279040  725

  7. #7
    Plane Walker Perros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by g0kuenuan View Post
    stuff like this... not even closed beta 1 ... why? :\
    We are all just grinding posts, right?

  8. #8
    Plane Touched Insaneium's Avatar
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    The entire Rift class system was made for the question you are asking. They don't want players to feel like they are stuck in one particular style of gameplay. From "I am a tank, all I can do is absorb damage", to "I am a tank, but I can also do this and this while still being able to absorb damage" and the same with healers. The specific role is still there, but you have variety available on how you fill that role.

  9. #9
    Rift Master armengar's Avatar
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    Its a good and fair question, there is a lot of time to be wasted if, and i mean if there will be one prefered tank and healer thats leaps and bounds above the rest as far as say raid tanking, hopeing being able to mix it up some with the souls will take care of that issue, but i dont think enough of it is known yet, we havent even saw any abilities listed. But I would hate to level a say healer to max, only to find out they dont preform in a raid to cover say 2nd healer, So heres hoping all roles are viable, and they keep things pretty close with souls from other classes. I really dont wanna repeat leveling my sk to cap to have more armor/hp than the warrior but not be allowed to raid due to not having defensive =)
    As more info comes out we shall see

  10. #10
    Champion
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    Balanced for what? I'm sure different specs will be better and worse at different roles.

    Knowing which specs are best for what is part of the fun of the class system. It's going to be more than stick to one spec and cry that your group heals aren't as good as spec xyz.

  11. #11
    Shadowlander
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    I guess what Im saying is that I hope when we raid a 20 man instance and we require 3 tanks and 4 healers that all 3 tanks dont spec into AwesomeTank Warrior1 and all healers spec into LeetPurifierSentinel because the other healers and tanks cant compete with that.

    And its more of a design decision really. They can make 3 or 4 souls have 50% damage reduction talent or whatever. In WoW, only Warriors got the reduced 20% melee swing debuff for the first 3 years. I hope Trions implementations are not just limited to 1 soul even if everyone can switch into that. Youd think Trion would do that and have more than 1 best class. With dps, its a bit easier. But as I said above, Both EQ and WoW did NOT have balanced tanks and healers and was just curious if they had mentioned anything yet about their design philosophy. I wasnt looking for specifics.

  12. #12
    Rift Chaser Ylvelill's Avatar
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    Completely off topic:
    Still cant believe they are making raids 20 man.... so sad

  13. #13
    Plane Walker Perros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellek View Post
    I guess what Im saying is that I hope when we raid a 20 man instance and we require 3 tanks and 4 healers that all 3 tanks dont spec into AwesomeTank Warrior1 and all healers spec into LeetPurifierSentinel because the other healers and tanks cant compete with that.

    And its more of a design decision really. They can make 3 or 4 souls have 50% damage reduction talent or whatever. In WoW, only Warriors got the reduced 20% melee swing debuff for the first 3 years. I hope Trions implementations are not just limited to 1 soul even if everyone can switch into that. Youd think Trion would do that and have more than 1 best class. With dps, its a bit easier. But as I said above, Both EQ and WoW did NOT have balanced tanks and healers and was just curious if they had mentioned anything yet about their design philosophy. I wasnt looking for specifics.
    If they do it intelligently, they will put very basic tanking abilities like mitigation bonus, evasion bonus, shield use, etc., very low on the soul tree. They will put specialized abilities, like AE taunts, very short duration damage buffs,runes, invulns, rescues high on the soul tree. Even if gimp tank soul B doesn't have the +20% mitigation that leet tank soul A gets, he can just put a few points into soul A to combine some basic tanking with the specific abilities of soul B, which could for example be a specialized ranged tanking soul with extra evasion to ranged attacks, very good ranged offense.

  14. #14
    Plane Walker Fayde's Avatar
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    I think each Tank will have there own way of tanking why it might not be 100% balanced i think it will be close enough that we can put up with it till they can balance it the same wityh cleric's.

    The game however will NEVER be 100% balanced it can be well balanced but you will never have a perfect balance players are funny people they can find things you could never think of as a Dev when building your game.
    Death is great people are dying to get there.

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  15. #15
    Plane Touched Paks's Avatar
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    No such thing as balancing in this game really.

    You can have multiple souls and you can intermix them in your archtype to create the calling that specifically suits you - and you can switch them out to different set ups.

    You can have a "Raid Setup" a "Dungeon Setup" a "Solo Setup" a "Group Setup", etc. make your character exactly or as close to exactly how YOU like to play as you want - and this way you'll stop worrying about what other people have - there won't be an "optimal" path as everyone plays different and has different skills, etc.
    Veteran MMORPG Player for 10 years. Played almost all of them at one point. Played variety of races and classes and am good at most of them also.

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