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Thread: Bard Songs

  1. #1
    Telaran Danlm's Avatar
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    Default Bard Songs

    So we haven't heard anything about the Bard soul yet so I was thinking we could do some wild speculation/wishing about how the song system would work.
    Quote Originally Posted by Slacka View Post
    My biggest hope from a Bard class in Rift is that it doesnt end up as a class that does a bit of everything, but falls short of alternative soul choices in every field. whilst it has been frustrating in other releases, this is especially important with the chance to slot 3 souls as we could so easily find that this much loved class becomes obsolete and that specing across 3 other souls gives a better result than even a pure Bard spec.

    In too many releases recently I have just felt that the Bard, or failing that buffer class was at the back of the queue when the design was completed. Especially as it seems more recent takes on the class have resulted in songs or mantras that are switched on and require no further thought, whilst you spam skills to try and do a bit of dps, or heal, or whatever other skills have been tacked on the side.

    Now I never played EQ1, so cant comment on the bard system there, although i can see it has generated a lot of love (and carpel tunnel) from the posters in this thread. What i can comment on however is a system that i really do think could be modified to create an enjoyable bard experience that actually makes you feel like you are making a diference, rather than just along for the buffs. (Now please try an stick with me on this, it might sound a bit silly at first, but its something i have wondered about on more than one occasion, and the more i think about it the more i like the general idea :P )

    In AoC they had a system called "Spellweaving" which allowed casters to build up the amount of power and damage being done, whilst using their normal skills, as well as casting occasional extra spells or abilities. In fact the first time i tried weaving rather than thinking about the increases my Necro was getting to its damage i was thinking "this could be really easily modified into a bard system"

    In theory you could have a set of "songs" which start a similar process to "spellweaving". the songs could be basic buffs, such as a health or power regen (these could build in intensity over time the longer you keep playing the song). Whilst the basic song plays you could have the choice of simply using standard attacks and abilities, or the choice of playing "flourishes" which ramp up and increase the effectiveness of the basic buff (or maybe speed up the natural intensity increases?), or add effects to it. A flourish could be a chain of a few skills used in quick sucsession in order to trigger the "flourish effect" for a predetermined amount of time. additionally every 30s or possibly a longer time period apart you could have the choice of playing a "solo" which would give far stronger buff bonuses, add damage to the groups spells for the next couple of hits, cause a larger attack for the bard itself, could have several things to choose from.

    Additionally to discourage the idea of Bards as follow buff bots, and promote the active playing of a Bard as an actual valuable asset to a group rather than just being there for the buffs the best "flourishes" or "solo's" could require attacks of some form that remain in theme such as ending a solo with a "Ringing Blow" from behind, or a "Percussive Slam" that involves a rather heavy blow to a target's head.

    Anyway, im sure people can probably come up with far better idea's that would improve a system such as this, however as a basis it is something that i have often wondered about.
    I really like this idea of actively developing your songs on the fly. Maybe even having a separate "global" cool down for song abilities and non-song abilities therefore making the class more challenging and fun. Imagine trying to keep your song up and DPSing or healing or any other utility at the same time and intertwining your songs and abilities to maximize what you are trying to accomplish and to keep the group happy. That type of system may be to complicated but it just seems like a really awsome way to play the class to me. Your thoughs?

  2. #2
    Plane Touched hydd's Avatar
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    If there is one thing Vanguard did right it's Songbooks. It allowed us to focus on orchestrating for particular situations "on the fly" as you put. The complexity behind the songbook is vast, the ability to have 8 different banks of song components with multiple uses such as +damage %, +flat damage, +resistance, parachute, fire/cold/physical procs, spell refresh, +AC, damage runes, etc. that were affected by different mods (string, brass, wind, percussion, voice) allowed you to make an incredibly unique song. Although, in Vanguard it wasn't scaled to 50 (or 55, for that matter) correctly and most song components that weren't +damage % or +flat damage were left in the dust.

    If done correctly a song book with scaled bonuses/debuffs components would be a dream come true! A bard could change the tide of a hectic battle by busting out a lute and turning on a high defense song to keep the tank alive or even busting out two swords and shout your way to victory and show those other scouts how to dps!
    Last edited by hydd; 08-16-2010 at 09:35 PM.

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    Telaran Danlm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hydd View Post
    If there is one thing Vanguard did right it's Songbooks. It allowed us to focus on orchestrating for particular situations "on the fly" as you put. The complexity behind the songbook is vast, the ability to have 8 different banks of song components with multiple uses such as +damage %, +flat damage, +resistance, parachute, fire/cold/physical procs, spell refresh, +AC, damage runes, etc. that were affected by different mods (string, brass, wind, percussion, voice). You could make an incredibly unique song. Although, in Vanguard it wasn't scaled to 50 (or 55, for that matter) correctly and most song components that weren't +damage % or +flat damage were left in the dust.

    If done correctly a song book with scaled bonuses/debuffs components would be a dream come true! A bard could change the tide of a hectic battle by busting out a lute and turning on a high defense song to keep the tank alive or even busting out two swords and shout your way to victory and show those other scouts how to dps!
    I agree, VG had an awsome song system, the ability to create unique songs for any situation was amazing. I just have a feeling from what I've seen of the soul trees and such that it wont quite be like that, I could be completely off-base though.

    BTW whats goin on Hydd?

  4. #4
    Plane Touched hydd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danlm View Post
    I agree, VG had an awsome song system, the ability to create unique songs for any situation was amazing. I just have a feeling from what I've seen of the soul trees and such that it wont quite be like that, I could be completely off-base though.

    BTW whats goin on Hydd?
    It'll likely be different. We can only hope that they could make a UI element only accessible by bards and give us components to pick as we level. Some being more debuff oriented and others more group buff oriented. Sort of like the bard vs dirge type deal.

    Personally I'm back to my old addiction, Vanguard. Schwin and I are leading Enigma there and having a really good time! Still a few top bards around Veganzombie, Zakuul, Svann, and OBVIOUSLY me! I'm still waiting for a bard to beat my parses!!!

    Yourself?
    Last edited by hydd; 08-16-2010 at 10:18 PM.

  5. #5
    Telaran Danlm's Avatar
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    I'm ok, just workin and stuff. I've popped back into VG a few times over the past few months but cant seem to want to stay after a bit.

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    Soulwalker Revol's Avatar
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    So bards are definitely going in? There's already 4 subclasses in Rogue...

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    Rift Disciple Rioku's Avatar
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    So bards are definitely going in? There's already 4 subclasses in Rogue...
    yes, i think i read somewhere on forums that each calling will have 8 classes (souls) in the begining

  8. #8
    Telaran Merlonus's Avatar
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    and ive seen an admin/dev post 4 is the max and may expand to 6 with an expansion ill try to find quote/link
    Merlonus-Pyro-lock

  9. #9
    Plane Touched hydd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danlm View Post
    I'm ok, just workin and stuff. I've popped back into VG a few times over the past few months but cant seem to want to stay after a bit.
    Watch this video at 4:30. Bard was an included subclass in the video.

    I love leaks!

  10. #10
    Soulwalker Revol's Avatar
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    Phew, good. Thanks!

  11. #11
    Shield of Telara Caracarn's Avatar
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    As an old Vanguard bard addict I hope they will do something like the Vangiard songbook. I lióved the flexibility it offered and the ability to support my group in a kind of perfect way in any situation. Well played bards really did make a difference in Vanguard and were much more than just moving jukeboxes.
    ELDER of TELARA

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  12. #12
    Ascendant Nadili's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Merlonus View Post
    and ive seen an admin/dev post 4 is the max and may expand to 6 with an expansion ill try to find quote/link
    In this vid at 1:44 Scott talks about 8 per calling. I love bards as well not usually my main but I always have a bard alt. Hoping to see some kind of weaving/twisting not a huge fan of the EQ2 version.

    http://mmorpg.gamezone.com/videos/it...nes_of_telara/

  13. #13
    Rift Disciple Xilith's Avatar
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    I thought the VG system was good, but the choices for the components and their weightings was not. It seemed like there ended up being fewer unique songs than intended, and the unique ones were so similar it barely mattered which Coda you chose. Ideally, IMO, the songs would vary drastically from group to group and situation to situation.

    That said, I didn't play Bard to a high level, so maybe the diversity was there at endgame.

    My personal prediction, as a pessimist, is that the Rift bard class will be closer to an EQ2 Dirge/Troub than an EQ or VG bard - there's just so many souls for them to work on, and this would take a lot of work to do 'right'.

  14. #14
    Telaran Rickon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hydd View Post
    Although, in Vanguard it wasn't scaled to 50 (or 55, for that matter) correctly and most song components that weren't +damage % or +flat damage were left in the dust.
    This^^

    There was no need for any thoughtful consideration of what my primary components should be, and without it the song-system was just flat. Non-damage amplifying components had too little impact on an encounter to even be considered alternatives. I'd much prefer a system where a player who understands the difficulties of an encounter and responds by including components that addressed these particular difficulties is rewarded.

    ---Rickon Highgarden

  15. #15
    Rift Disciple Enyeto's Avatar
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    Really now people lets think about how bard should be made now. With technology on games like rock band where you basically karaoke, they should let you sing into your mic to produce songs better. i.e. the better you sing the better the buff etc. Then we can all laugh at the squeaky pubescent tones together.


    Forum tested, Hevenly approved.

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