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Thread: Synergy Crystals compared across the four callings

  1. #1
    Prophet of Telara
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    Default Synergy Crystals compared across the four callings

    Cleric Crystals
    Rug Crystals
    Warrior Crystals
    Mage Crystals

    So after looking at the crystals, it seems like Trion definitely spent more effort and thought into some than others. I am in no way saying all the crystals should provide 10% more DPS or what not, just that ideally they will all provide a comparable bonus, be it 5%, 10%, or whatever. Certain crystals should not be multiple times better than others.

    Limiting the comparable bonuses to DPS, certain crystals are providing below a 1% increase in DPS and others are arguably providing upwards of 15% blanket increases. Obviously Trion is striving to avoid passive bonuses for all classes, but their gimmicks should at least provide aggregate benefits.

    I think for the most part we can agree that at least 75% of the crystals should not be released in their present form. There are too many passives that only affect deep root abilities...that honestly worth getting before and still aren't. The other botched crystals just have dreadful uptimes or too low of proc rates to make them practical.

    For the remaining 25% of the crystals, there are actually a lot of awesome bonuses that not only affect actually used skills, but also provide benefits for multiple rotations.

    Mage seemed to have a good balance across mutliple crystals. Archon for example is essentially gaining 200 SP from their crystal at 100% uptime. Warlock gains 30% crit damage and a 10% bonus to their DoTs. Necro is gaining 75 SP and almost doubling their main CD (33% longer CD, 25% reduction CD = awesome). Dominator is gaining a 25% boost to their main CD's CD and potential 75 SP. These are all likely providing at least a 10% increase in damage, potentially closer to 20% in ideal situations. For the most part, mages have a wide breadth of passive and active bonuses that fit multiple play styles and hybridization.

    Paragons look like they are getting a blanket 10% bonus to 2/3 their current spec's damage and potentially upwards of ~20% increase in a pure dual wield spec. BM and RB bonuses look interesting...Champ not so much.

    Unfortunately I am missing some info on the rogue crystals, but they do have some potentially awesome bonuses. Marksman is getting 10% more damage for a pure spec plus a form of energy reduction. BD is getting increased AP that can stack up to 20 times. Rangers are getting 30% more pet damage. The BD 2p passive alone looks like it could provide some amazing sustained DPS bonuses that would affect their current melee DPS build. The assassin 2p is interesting depending on the DPS of FB, but the 4p is garbage.

    Cleric is pretty much trash all around. The druid one is likely increasing DPS by under 10%, and that is the best DPS option. They all have tons of gimmicks that are all super situational and terrible. Yay 10% chance to proc off a skill that is only making up 10-20% of my rotation and will only at best increase my DPS by maybe 5% on top of that? Sweet 0.1*0.1*0.05 DPS increase... Or how about an increasing DoT passive for a class that is 99% all about direct damage, I guess they might have realized this had Cabalist ever been realistic to play in a raid.

    To be fair to Trion, I think they did come up with a lot of novel and unique bonuses for many abilities. Shaman has some really interesting mechanics for skills double hitting or a universal GCD reduction...it just happens they are low proc rates on abilities that are relatively infrequent in realistic rotations.

    I think by trying to set a benchmark, say 10% DPS increase, would let Trion more easily balance the crystals against each other. Once they know the potency they want to aim for they can work backwards and figure out what sort of abilities and passives would both fit the class and provide sufficient DPS increases. Right now they just kind of hodgepodged the entire thing together without any real cross-crystal balancing.

    Of course a lot of the problem with these crystals is that many specs just aren't worth ever going over 32 points into, much less using at all (lolCab), so of the 8 crystals only 2 might ever, ever be used.

    Anywho, just curious what other people think of the synergy crystals and how potent/imbalance/whatever they are and where other people might like to see them end up.

  2. #2
    Telaran
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    whats a rug?

  3. #3
    Rift Disciple
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    I might use the purifier one since I tend to tank heal and run heavy purifier. Otherwise, the druid one is a realizable bonus, even though it's still weak. It would be interesting to see how the cabalist one with the 4 piece bonus affects that tree, considering all the other damage scaling that cabalist has for deep builds. Maybe it will become somewhat viable. Many of them would become more useful if the bonuses could be used in pvp, but no valor means they wouldn't live long enough to realize the benefit of them. (If I could use the warden or sentinel one in pvp, that would be hawt).

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    Plane Touched Eraven's Avatar
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    Some people are just never happy.

  5. #5
    Telaran
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    I was gonna put a long post comparing and ranting but decided against it. Basically some of them are quite good (the paragon one looks quite nice), but most are mediocre (the warden one for example is useful but not great) and many are down right pathetic in comparison (champion, druid, inqisitor to name just a few).

    Basically trion really needs to put some more thought into them quickly and make sure they're all reasonably even in power.

    Other main problem with the system that i see is that with only 1 slot for the crystals you can't mix and match the 2 piece bonuses some of which are ok while the 4 pieces suck.
    Last edited by JudgeMentalOne; 07-08-2011 at 08:10 AM.

  6. #6
    Champion Carolius's Avatar
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    Necro and warlock crystals make me moist. I wanna mash em together and cram them both into the slot.
    Last edited by Carolius; 07-08-2011 at 08:19 AM.

  7. #7
    Prophet of Telara
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    The basic problem is just that some are considerably better than others. If Trion wants to make the slot a net increase of around 2%, like say what a trinket typically can max out on, that's fine. But to give people a below a 1% increase for one class and then have others push 20%...something is obviously off.

    I think getting a baseline for the synergy slot will do more good than any specific feedback about a specific class's bonuses.

    Considering the difficulty that will likely be associated with getting both the 2p and 4p bonuses, they should probably be at least around 10% increase for that class does.

    I think several of the bonuses should also be better thought out to affect the class as both hybrid and pure specs...because honestly most classes will never be pure specs and trying to limit crystals for them is just going to cause them to never be used.

    BD for example could just have its 4p tweaked to affect all rhythmic maneuvers. It would then benefit a pure spec with its 51p and 40p roots, but it would also benefit a 0p and 16p ability that would make it more practical and used.

    Several of the crystals just flat out don't make sense...like Paladin's increased damage and increasing Light's Decree. HK could easily change some mechanics...but as far as I know most bosses are 5 targets or lower (if not just straight ST) and warriors basically never have any threat issues. Giving Paladin, supposedly the archetype of pure defensive, multiple offensive crystal bonuses makes no sense. I would have expected something like increased block, armor, or some other defensive bonus.

    Champion, essentially the pure offensive warrior calling is equaling puzzling. It supposedly has the best AoE, but for whatever reason it still lacks a CD-less AoE finisher and then it only gives ~40% of its damage a 15% bonus, meh. Seems like even a pure champion spec would be better off with the RB crystal since FB would still likely do more damage on top of not eating a GCD.

    It just boggles my mind how sloppy Trion is with their itemization.

  8. #8
    Shield of Telara Cabreon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carolius View Post
    Necro and warlock crystals make me moist. I wanna mash em together and cram them both into the slot.
    Hehe, hopefully this is the reason why trion hasn't messed with mages. With the Nyx gear and the synergy xtals might make us have more fun in PVE and PVP.

  9. #9
    Prophet of Telara
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    For warriors it boils down to this...
    DPS is good to okay
    1. Paragon will definitely help increase the lead they have in raids
    2. Beastmaster will help try to keep pace for the 2h champ/bm builds
    3. Champion one has an interesting effect of making bladefury spammable - so that'll take some time to evaluate
    4. Riftblade has a fun little pvp benefit.
    Tank ones are terrible
    1. VK only has a situationally useful one in the singularity bonus, though not sure where a sustained burst >10s exists currently?
    2. WL bonus of 2% dodge is well, a bonus of 2% dodge - so better than nothing i suppose.
    3. RV is completely pointless - bonuses to skills that are not used or spec'd for.
    4. Paladin will be useful if you're running experts or grinding open world trash in HK gear...
    Ceribaen, formerly of Nyx (D).
    Now residing on Seastone.

  10. #10
    Rift Disciple
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    Was going to gripe about the state of the cleric ones compared to the other, but decided against it. I think I could use the time more constructively on leveling my alts to see what class I really want to spend more time on as I am growing disappoint with the non-healer aspects of the cleric calling.

    The only thing I can really say in conclusion is for a game that options in character build is the major selling point, the number of option overshadowed by a few are staggering. But then again they never said they would just be giving us good options, just options.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phage View Post
    Cleric Crystals
    Rug Crystals
    Warrior Crystals
    Mage Crystals


    Paragons look like they are getting a blanket 10% bonus to 2/3 their current spec's damage and potentially upwards of ~20% increase in a pure dual wield spec. BM and RB bonuses look interesting...Champ not so much.

    I don't think you understand how these bonuses work.

    The paragon (2) piece set bonus gives +10% damage, which is ADDITIVE with the paragon's already amazing +200% damage. So they go from 200% bonus to 210% bonus. THIS IS NOT A 10% DAMAGE INCREASE.

    If a Paragon did 100 base damage. With their current bonuses they would do 300 damage. Then you add in this crystal and they do 310 damage. This is a ~3% damage bonus.

    The paragon (4) piece set bonus only helps Reaping Harvest, which paragons do not use as a finisher. Paragon's PVE dps revolves around SLI and Fiery Burst, neither of which are buffed by the paragon synergy crystal.


    TL;DR Paragon crystal only gives ~3% damage increase.

  12. #12
    Prophet of Telara Flaviusx's Avatar
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    Near as I can tell, mages appear to be balanced with the assumption that they'll have these crystals. That's why they are so relatively strong...and why mages on live are hurting.

  13. #13
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    I don't see any point in complaining that some are better than others. Thats the way it is. During progression you'll already be picking roles that do the most dps anyway, I don't see any point complaining when now with the crystals there will be a better role to pick way down the line that will eek out a couple hundred more dps. Presumably you're happy with X spec you're playing right now which is probably a competitive DPS build. I'll bet you that you didn't start in that spec though and you changed into it somewhere down the line.

    If you're angry that it will make some souls better than others, they do that every patch and you've probably already complained about it. If you play a certain spec because you like it the most and don't care what anyone else says, you'll pick up the synergy crystal for that soul and be happy that you're now a little bit better.

    Plus, by the time we have all the gear we'll all be facerolling the keyboards pulling over 2k dps anyway. That 100 more dps you might get one crystal over the other is now only a whopping 5% difference between specs.

    Life will go on and you'll adapt, just like you did in 1.1 and 1.2 and now in 1.3

  14. #14
    Shield of Telara kidbs's Avatar
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    The cleric crystals are absolute garbage. Do we even have a cleric developer that has a clue of how our souls actually play out in a raid situation?

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enrick View Post
    I don't see any point in complaining that some are better than others. Thats the way it is. During progression you'll already be picking roles that do the most dps anyway, I don't see any point complaining when now with the crystals there will be a better role to pick way down the line that will eek out a couple hundred more dps. Presumably you're happy with X spec you're playing right now which is probably a competitive DPS build. I'll bet you that you didn't start in that spec though and you changed into it somewhere down the line.
    Except they're MASSIVE buffs to some classes (ie: already overpowered classes) but completely worthless for others. We also call this imbalance.

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