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Thread: Honorbound Soulstone: Really, really bad.

  1. #1
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    Thumbs down Honorbound Soulstone: Really, really bad.

    So I thought that this was going to be one of the most amazing greaters ever; however, I noticed that it seems to actually be extremely bad. The proc-rate is horrible and it doesn't even heal for that much. So I decided to run some tests. The first two tests are with all the heals being controlled so only the ones we want are proccing.

    The math for finding out how many hits on average are being thrown out was to time how many hits were thrown out in a minute, then multiply those hits by (Minutes+(Seconds/60)).
    Example: 30 hits in 1 minute --> 7:19 = (7+19/60) * 30 = 219.5; round that to 219 because you can't get that last full hit in.

    The first test lasted for 7:19 and we wanted to see the procs of these three heals (Time: 07:19 Raid DPS:90 Cuts :73 Calabeth :17 | Raid HPS: 61 Calabeth :55 Cuts :20)
    - Honorbound Soulstone procced 10464 heals (24 times)
    - Song of Lost Souls (Trinket) procced 9405 heals (19 times)
    - Corrosive Faesource procced 4550 heals (7 times)

    Heals for 7:19

    Strike of Judgement hits on average 39 times a minute and the trial lasted for 7:19, showing on average 285 hits were thrown out. With a proc rate of 24 times out of 285, a 8.4% chance of proccing ONLY on Strike of Judgement, the heals from this greater are very poor. This is assuming that it's going to be used 50% of the time in a 1:1 encounter, ie - Bosses. In an AOE setting, you won't use it at all. So basically, we're looking at a 4.6%~6% chance of proccing.

    Trolls/Flamers Must Read: I know that this is based on damage but with all the skills dealing relatively the same amount of damage, it is relatively safe to assume that the amount of times you will be using "Strike of Judgement" will be around 55% because auto attack doesn't really count. Not saying it is exactly 55%. Even if the amount of times you use it is 75%, the heals are still very poor.

    Proof of a somewhat 50% proc rate of Strike of Judgement

    Test of 8:48 to see how the Corrosive Faesource procs (Time: 08:48 Raid DPS:90 Cuts :50 Calabeth :39 Ssgamber :10 | Raid HPS: 58 Calabeth :49 Cuts :9 Ssgamber :3 )
    - 26000 from the CF (40 times)

    Heals of 8:48

    With 34 power strikes being thrown out on average, over 8:48, an average of 299 power strikes were thrown showing an average of proccing 13.4% of the time showing that from a greater, this is proccing very well and heals for a decent amount of health.

    Test of 9:53 to see everything in total: (Time: 09:53 Raid DPS:109 Cuts :66 Calabeth :43 | Raid HPS: 63 Calabeth :64 Cuts :28 )

    Heals of 9:53

    As you see, the Honorbound Soulstone has roughly a 13% of the heals with the Song of Lost Souls trinket proccing at about 17% of the time. Glory of the Chosen, which doesn't even take an Essence slot or an Equipment slot is usable after getting a critical hit, which with 15% or so as the critical strike chance, is healing a lot more reliably than is the Greater Essence that costs 50 Inscribed Sourcestones and 1,000 Planarite. With the Corrosive Faesource healing for more than 3x as much as the Honorbound Soulstone, the Corrosive Faesource is more viable to be used than is the Honorbound Soulstone.

    In short: Do NOT get this Greater Essence as it does less than a Blue Essence and costs a lot more. Depending on how you roll, if you're thinking about using this Greater Essence, you can wear the "Song of Lost Souls" which is a trinket that will proc on any hit, that isn't an auto-attack and it heals more and has a higher chance of proccing since you don't only have to use one specific attack. In any case, if you chose the Song of Lost Souls you will be able to replace that greater slot with a Static Stat item such as 30 endurance and 28 block or something along those lines which will also help your Corrosive Faesource proc more often.

    The low proc rate wouldn't be bad at all if it healed for more than 436, which is a very random number, might I add. Or maybe if the proc rate was increased, it would be pretty all right as well.

    For the price of 2.5 of the other lesser essences, this is not worth it at all.
    Last edited by Cuts; 07-03-2011 at 09:20 PM.

  2. #2
    Soulwalker
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    I want my 50 Inscribed Sourcestones back...

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    Plane Touched insainbassist's Avatar
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    Pretty much all of the greaters for 50 inscribed sourcestones seem lackluster.


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    Quote Originally Posted by insainbassist View Post
    Pretty much all of the greaters for 50 inscribed sourcestones seem lackluster.
    Honestly, that's a big problem for 2 reasons:
    1) It's a greater essence. It really should be good because we can only use 2 of those whereas we can use 4 lessers.
    2) It costs 50 inscribed sourcestones whereas the lessers cost 20 and would benefit you more. I'm not saying make the greaters 2.5x as good as the lessers, but at least make more incentive to use the greaters.

    That's the problem with the Greater Essences because they're easily replaced with Lesser Essences. You don't even need a Godly Lesser to please you more than a Greater does. The only thing I can find these Greaters good for is for "bragging rights." -- "Yeah, I collected 50 Inscribed Sourcestones and 1,000 Planarite to use this really crappy Greater."

    The only time I would legitimately use the Greaters is if they make it so Lessers cannot be used in slot of Greaters. Period.

  5. #5
    Champion Enokarda's Avatar
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    Just be glad we can actually put lessers in the greater slots still. I'm still waiting on that "fix" to come ruin everybody's day


    Greaters are a total joke though. This isn't the only one, and I think most people know to just avoid them. I even go so far as to offer advice during my rare excursions into random experts to complete guild quests. Letting players know that their BLUE, not even raid quality greaters are garbage doesn't always go over well, but most are quite happy with the tip.

    Art is meant to upset people, science reassures them.
    ~Georges Braque

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enokarda View Post
    Just be glad we can actually put lessers in the greater slots still. I'm still waiting on that "fix" to come ruin everybody's day


    Greaters are a total joke though. This isn't the only one, and I think most people know to just avoid them. I even go so far as to offer advice during my rare excursions into random experts to complete guild quests. Letting players know that their BLUE, not even raid quality greaters are garbage doesn't always go over well, but most are quite happy with the tip.
    I see what you're saying but it's just really ridiculous that a Blue Essence that comes from an EXPERT LIFE RIFT is much better than an essence that you have to seal 8 RAID RIFT DAILIES to get. You have to wait 8 days to do the daily, effectively saying you need to wait 8 days to get this Greater.

    Before you used to get 6 and you got 3 inscribed soursestones instead, you needed to seal 17 Raid Rift Dailies. That's more than 2 weeks, before the 1.3 patch, to get this Greater which isn't even better than a Blue that drops fairly well from an expert.
    Last edited by Cuts; 07-03-2011 at 10:08 PM.

  7. #7
    Rift Chaser Xeraz's Avatar
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    Greaters should provide the same stat increases as lesser AS WELL as the additional effect.
    Glory - Guardian Warrior / Cleric

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xeraz View Post
    Greaters should provide the same stat increases as lesser AS WELL as the additional effect.
    That would work pretty well in my opinion. I mean, it wouldn't make anything over-powered because the effects of the greaters aren't really all that ideal anyway. There are some greaters that are pretty good whereas a lot of them are actually horrible. So adding the stat a lesser would give you and then adding the additional effect would provide enough incentive to use the Greaters. If you think about it, people use lessers because they're a static stat boost and you don't have to rely on procs; however, if you have the stats a lesser would give you and then you have the additional bonus of a proc, there is no reason to not chose the greater. Besides, you can only use 2 greaters anyway.

  9. #9
    General of Telara livnthedream's Avatar
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    they need to buff the rest up to predatory soucestone level. especially since it was "good" pre 1.3 and it still got buffed.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by livnthedream View Post
    they need to buff the rest up to predatory soucestone level. especially since it was "good" pre 1.3 and it still got buffed.
    That's actually very true. They were all BiS and they were still buffed, yet greaters remained untouched.

    Honestly, I stilll agree with the previous though. Greaters should be lessers with a proc. Simple as that. And obviously as shown, 95% of the greaters are trash anyway so it would add an incentive for people to actually use them especially considering how expensive they are.

  11. #11
    General of Telara livnthedream's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuts View Post
    That's actually very true. They were all BiS and they were still buffed, yet greaters remained untouched.

    Honestly, I stilll agree with the previous though. Greaters should be lessers with a proc. Simple as that. And obviously as shown, 95% of the greaters are trash anyway so it would add an incentive for people to actually use them especially considering how expensive they are.
    you misunderstood what i stated. the rogue greater predatory sourcestones buff only lasted 15sec pre patch, it now lasts 25, just like the buff from the shot it was tied to. its pretty effectively a 100ap greater. the rest of them needs to be buffed to this level.
    "I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won."

  12. #12
    Prophet of Telara
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    Adding some stats or normalizing the expected ST/AoE DPS/HPS contributions of the greaters would definitely do a lot of good.

    Adding comparable stats to an epic lesser on the greaters (at least the 50 inscribed version) would at least ensure no one would spam lessers, which would be nice since the whole concept is typically avoided.

    Many of the current greaters are incredibly short sighted, overly specific, conditional with high down times, and generally lackluster.

    Take for example Flametouched Soulstone, arguable the worst inscribed ever.

    31 SP for 10 seconds after casting Countdown.

    Not only does it require a specific spell, but it has a limited duration...this is in place of what could be a Mystic River, giving 24int/10wis/11sp...the inscribed greater isn't even close.

    Greaters should clearly be providing superior benefits on top of providing niche benefits. Adding stats would at least reduce the ambiguity or by improving uptimes would also ensure you wouldn't use lessers in greaters.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phage View Post
    Adding some stats or normalizing the expected ST/AoE DPS/HPS contributions of the greaters would definitely do a lot of good.

    Adding comparable stats to an epic lesser on the greaters (at least the 50 inscribed version) would at least ensure no one would spam lessers, which would be nice since the whole concept is typically avoided.

    Many of the current greaters are incredibly short sighted, overly specific, conditional with high down times, and generally lackluster.

    Take for example Flametouched Soulstone, arguable the worst inscribed ever.

    31 SP for 10 seconds after casting Countdown.

    Not only does it require a specific spell, but it has a limited duration...this is in place of what could be a Mystic River, giving 24int/10wis/11sp...the inscribed greater isn't even close.

    Greaters should clearly be providing superior benefits on top of providing niche benefits. Adding stats would at least reduce the ambiguity or by improving uptimes would also ensure you wouldn't use lessers in greaters.

    Yeah, I see what you're saying and you bring up a good point. But I say it a lot easier:

    Greaters should be lessers w/ a proc.

  14. #14
    Plane Walker Villainelle's Avatar
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    Not surprised. The rogue greaters aside from Predatory are garbage. Even the massively buffed Backstab greater, Tactical Soulstone, only gives around a 5 DPS increase. Stat lessers and damage proc greaters blow it out of the water.

    Greaters across all classes need serious buffs.
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