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Thread: Out of Class rolls

  1. #1
    Pru
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    Default Out of Class rolls

    Any time I suggest in a raid that a warrior could benefit from a high dex item just as much as a rogue I'm told that dex high is for rogues period and I often hear similar statements made about mage and cleric gear regarding int/wis. While I don't particularly disagree with dex high items being called rogue items and str high items being warrior items, I've noticed a disturbing lack of 'warrior' 1 handed weapons. Looking at 1h weapons with +hit on them for pve here is what I have been able to find for epic drops:

    13 Daggers all dex high (obviously meant for rogues)
    10 1h Axes, 5 dex high, 3 str high, 1 w/ tank stats, 1 with str/dex the same
    10 1h Swords, 4 dex high, 2 str high, 3 w/ tank stats, 1 with str/dex the same
    4 1h Maces, 3 w/ tank stats, 1 dex high

    And of course there are 2 relic daggers, 2 relic 2handers for warriors but 0 (non tank) relic 1handers

    To the Trion team I would ask if this was intentional. Should the high stat on an item determine what class the item is for or is this a minor oversight in the distribution of items with appropriate class stats?

    To my fellow players, how often are you seeing a class roll for another class's gear? How big of an issue is this when it happens?
    Last edited by Pru; 06-26-2011 at 04:38 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stay View Post
    I read this topic as "Out of Class trolls" and I was like "no way any class is out of trolls. They're the internet's most renewable resource."
    Still a bit disappointed that no one is actually out of them, though.
    Lmao well played sir.
    Seventhsin - Warrior class lead <Church of Inglip>

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    Plane Walker Dourgen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pru View Post
    Any time I suggest in a raid that a warrior could benefit from a high dex item just as much as a rogue I'm told that dex high is for rogues period and I often hear similar statements made about mage and cleric gear regarding int/wis. While I don't particularly disagree with dex high items being called rogue items and str high items being warrior items, I've noticed a disturbing lack of 'warrior' 1 handed weapons. Looking at 1h weapons with +hit on them for pve here is what I have been able to find for epic drops:

    13 Daggers all dex high (obviously meant for rogues)
    10 1h Axes, 5 dex high, 3 str high, 1 w/ tank stats, 1 with str/dex the same
    10 1h Swords, 4 dex high, 2 str high, 3 w/ tank stats, 1 with str/dex the same
    4 1h Maces, 3 w/ tank stats, 1 dex high

    And of course there are 2 relic daggers, 2 relic 2handers for warriors but 0 (non tank) relic 1handers

    To the Trion team I would ask if this was intentional. Should the high stat on an item determine what class the item is for or is this a minor oversight in the distribution of items with appropriate class stats?

    To my fellow players, how often are you seeing a class roll for another class's gear? How big of an issue is this when it happens?
    Dual wielding warriors will roll on high dex weapons for 2 reasons: They have good stats for warriors (Dexterity, strength, hit, crit etc), and there are few alternatives.
    I mean hell the weapons even say warrior on them at the bottom right next to rogue.
    If Trion didn't intend warriors to roll on them they would have made strength unambiguously superior to dex for us.
    Thanks for the haircuts.

  3. #3
    Plane Touched
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    Same reason clerics roll on mage gear, stats are better for them.

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    Are these cinnamon rolls or rolls with butter? I prefer if they are cinnamon, please.
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    * By "free" I mean "shut up". Yes, you.

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    Rift Master Carthoris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pru View Post
    Any time I suggest in a raid that a warrior could benefit from a high dex item just as much as a rogue I'm told that dex high is for rogues period and I often hear similar statements made about mage and cleric gear regarding int/wis. While I don't particularly disagree with dex high items being called rogue items and str high items being warrior items, I've noticed a disturbing lack of 'warrior' 1 handed weapons. Looking at 1h weapons with +hit on them for pve here is what I have been able to find for epic drops:

    13 Daggers all dex high (obviously meant for rogues)
    10 1h Axes, 5 dex high, 3 str high, 1 w/ tank stats, 1 with str/dex the same
    10 1h Swords, 4 dex high, 2 str high, 3 w/ tank stats, 1 with str/dex the same
    4 1h Maces, 3 w/ tank stats, 1 dex high

    And of course there are 2 relic daggers, 2 relic 2handers for warriors but 0 (non tank) relic 1handers

    To the Trion team I would ask if this was intentional. Should the high stat on an item determine what class the item is for or is this a minor oversight in the distribution of items with appropriate class stats?

    To my fellow players, how often are you seeing a class roll for another class's gear? How big of an issue is this when it happens?
    It's infuriating that people won't stick with the gear Trion made for their class (in the case of warriors: slow 1-handers, 2-handers, and plate), but I can't blame them for rolling on leather and dex gear because strength is woefully underpowered as a stat right now. I even hear that the new paragon changes make warriors want f-ing DAGGERS now, which is just super awesome.

    Warriors should prioritize strength, clerics wisdom, rogues dexterity, and mages intelligence. It's obvious that Trion thinks that's how the classes should play, but right now that stat spread doesn't hold under even the most cursory theorycrafting and people aren't going to gimp their characters (nor should they).

  6. #6
    Prophet of Telara Flaviusx's Avatar
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    Well, they got it right for mages at least. We do indeed value int. And rogues are also at the right place with dex.

    It's clerics and especially warriors where the problem lies.

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    Its infuriating to see classes taking gear off another class that the gear is clearly intended for. Very often its not that the stats are better, its an ignorant player thinking that because its level 32 gear cloth that its better for their cleric than level 30 mail.

    Apart from that, mage gear won't have better stats for a cleric. Wisdom gives a cleric twice or more the spellpower than Int does. Int may give them a larger mana pool, but wisdom gives them faster regen. On my cleric I have everything geared toward high wisdom (its all cleric gear) and the regen is good enough that I don't have mana issues despite having a smaller mana pool than a mage of the same level. That is as it should be.

    Crappy players can't manage their resources properly and grab gear they shouldn't be using in an effort to make up for their failure. It was one thing WOW got right when they put in the restrictions on off-armor.

    Frankly if it continues to happen, I'll just start rolling on mail gear with my mage and runebreak it in front of the cleric that rolled on and won some cloth item. Or maybe Trion will get smart and put in a priority system so that a class rolling on gear will get precedence over an off-gear class trying to steal it.

  8. #8
    Pru
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    I've personally passed on gear that would be a huge upgrade because it was dex high and it's generally accepted that dex high means it's a rogue item even tho for a 2h warrior crit is worth far more than attack power. Currently though it's looking more and more like, at least for melee, dex/crit are not really staying within class boundaries. I don't want to take gear from another class but between GSB and RoS there are 3 dex high (slow) 1 handers and only 1 str high 1hander (in RoS). So I either wait for all the rogues to get weapons before I have a shot at one or I take an item that is generally accepted to be a rogue item. And then there is a total lack of slow 1h dps relic weapons which I dont understand at all.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stay View Post
    I read this topic as "Out of Class trolls" and I was like "no way any class is out of trolls. They're the internet's most renewable resource."
    Still a bit disappointed that no one is actually out of them, though.
    Lmao well played sir.
    Seventhsin - Warrior class lead <Church of Inglip>

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pru View Post
    Any time I suggest in a raid that a warrior could benefit from a high dex item just as much as a rogue I'm told that dex high is for rogues period and I often hear similar statements made about mage and cleric gear regarding int/wis. While I don't particularly disagree with dex high items being called rogue items and str high items being warrior items, I've noticed a disturbing lack of 'warrior' 1 handed weapons. Looking at 1h weapons with +hit on them for pve here is what I have been able to find for epic drops:

    13 Daggers all dex high (obviously meant for rogues)
    10 1h Axes, 5 dex high, 3 str high, 1 w/ tank stats, 1 with str/dex the same
    10 1h Swords, 4 dex high, 2 str high, 3 w/ tank stats, 1 with str/dex the same
    4 1h Maces, 3 w/ tank stats, 1 dex high

    And of course there are 2 relic daggers, 2 relic 2handers for warriors but 0 (non tank) relic 1handers

    To the Trion team I would ask if this was intentional. Should the high stat on an item determine what class the item is for or is this a minor oversight in the distribution of items with appropriate class stats?

    To my fellow players, how often are you seeing a class roll for another class's gear? How big of an issue is this when it happens?
    Trion have decided who can use what with the little bit of writing on the bottom of the item.

    Your guild will decide who can roll for what in raids.

    These boards will decide nothing.

  10. #10
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    First and foremost you discuss this with the raid leader/guild leader and then with the raid itself.

    Once it is known you want specific items you are either in the roll or you can take it after the main roles take them.

    The decision is based on the quantity of the people wanting that item and the reasons you want it, If 7 rogues want that item and one warrior wants it to try a spec, is it fair to give it to the warrior?

    And would the guild/raid cope with the fact that they can roll on their gear and not the other way round.

    I believe Trion should make more options or be more precise with who can use what item to save arguments.

  11. #11
    Telaran Zarokima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dourgen View Post
    I mean hell the weapons even say warrior on them at the bottom right next to rogue.
    That is a very poor argument. Note that this item also says Rogue and Warrior at the bottom right next to Mage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saxxonknight View Post
    Its infuriating to see classes taking gear off another class that the gear is clearly intended for. Very often its not that the stats are better, its an ignorant player thinking that because its level 32 gear cloth that its better for their cleric than level 30 mail.

    Apart from that, mage gear won't have better stats for a cleric. Wisdom gives a cleric twice or more the spellpower than Int does. Int may give them a larger mana pool, but wisdom gives them faster regen. On my cleric I have everything geared toward high wisdom (its all cleric gear) and the regen is good enough that I don't have mana issues despite having a smaller mana pool than a mage of the same level. That is as it should be.

    Crappy players can't manage their resources properly and grab gear they shouldn't be using in an effort to make up for their failure. It was one thing WOW got right when they put in the restrictions on off-armor.

    Frankly if it continues to happen, I'll just start rolling on mail gear with my mage and runebreak it in front of the cleric that rolled on and won some cloth item. Or maybe Trion will get smart and put in a priority system so that a class rolling on gear will get precedence over an off-gear class trying to steal it.
    Except due to the amount of abilities clerics have that scale will with crit, int is good for them. Don't be spoon fed by the dev's what is best for your class(or other people's classes) because frequently they are wrong. Also, frequently the cloth items clerics tend to take are the crit based ones which mages should be snubbing their nose at anyway.

  13. #13
    Soulwalker
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    Well there should be more high dex 1 handers then str ones. Every rogue soul dual wields and get something useful out of dex. Not every warrior dual wields. Generally though most people I know don't cry unless it is a warrior rolling on leather or a cleric rolling on cloth.

  14. #14
    Ascendant Stigas's Avatar
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    Trion isn't responsible for your guilds looting policies. They make items available. Your officers are tasked with deciding who deserves them.

    If your guild is rolling on relics and they haven't all been playing MMO's together for a long time, it's a pretty good sign that loot will never feel fair in that guild.
    Stigas - 50 Defiant Mage - Rank 5
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  15. #15
    Plane Walker Dourgen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarokima View Post
    That is a very poor argument. Note that this item also says Rogue and Warrior at the bottom right next to Mage.
    Grats! You found exceptions! ...that clearly have no place in a discussion about weapons with dex and strength. No one playing a rogue or warrior would roll on that thing but a sword with a little more dex than strength? You bet.
    Thanks for the haircuts.

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