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Thread: What kind of diversity and balance would you like to see in the warrior classes?

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    Telaran Zedric's Avatar
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    Default What kind of diversity and balance would you like to see in the warrior classes?

    Stoneskins, blocks, mitigation, avoidance, self heals, life taps, sword and board, 2-handers, dual wielding, straight taunts, taunt-over-times, single target, multi-target, etc. What kind of diversity and balance would you like to see in the warrior classes?

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    Sword of Telara Xanax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zedric View Post
    Stoneskins, blocks, mitigation, avoidance, self heals, life taps, sword and board, 2-handers, dual wielding, straight taunts, taunt-over-times, single target, multi-target, etc. What kind of diversity and balance would you like to see in the warrior classes?
    I would love to see the ability to go both the cookie cutter 'tank' and the attemptoDPS warrior.

    I hate to say it, but similar to WoW, depending on your stats , talent tree, weapon and gear you could be either a tank or a "dps" warrior. This made it so you didn't have to reroll 50 levels lol.

    With that said, some abilities to be activated with certain weapons. Shield abilities if a shield is equipped and 2h flurry's if a 2hander is equipped etc.

    If this wont be the case, I'll stick with what I believe will be a heavy dps class

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    Telaran Zedric's Avatar
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    Default aggro diversity

    I'd like to see something like this kind of diversity regarding aggro -

    One class excelling in single target high value attacks with long recasts. Also single target high value taunts with long recasts. They'd be good at getting immediate aggro and doing the most dps to single target mobs in the warrior class. Champion?

    One class excelling in high value "area of effect" and "encounter" attacks with long recasts. Also high value "area of effect" and "encounter" taunts with long recasts. Best at immediate aggro in multiple mob encounters and they'd have the highest warrior dps in multiple mob encounters. Unrevealed class?

    One class excelling in single target taunt-over-times. They would have low to moderate single target dps. It would take a little time to build aggro but once they did, it would be extremely difficult to rip the mob from them. Best class for long term fights with single mobs. Paladin?

    One class excelling in "area of effect" and "encounter" taunt-over-times. They would have low to moderate "area of effect" and "encounter" dps. It would take them a little time to build aggro with multiple mobs but once they did their encounter aggro would be insane. Reaver?


    Something like this would allow each tank to shine in different encounter situations and, while not impossible, it would make other encounter situations more of a challenge.

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    Telaran Zedric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xanax View Post
    I would love to see the ability to go both the cookie cutter 'tank' and the attemptoDPS warrior.

    I hate to say it, but similar to WoW, depending on your stats , talent tree, weapon and gear you could be either a tank or a "dps" warrior. This made it so you didn't have to reroll 50 levels lol.

    With that said, some abilities to be activated with certain weapons. Shield abilities if a shield is equipped and 2h flurry's if a 2hander is equipped etc.

    If this wont be the case, I'll stick with what I believe will be a heavy dps class
    I like the idea of being able to add variety to your class with changeable soul tree specs. I would hope that the Rift team would be sure to keep one warrior noticeably better at single target dps, one better at multiple target dps, one better at taking hits from raid mobs (stoneskins and blocks maybe), one better at taking hits from heroic/solo lvl mobs (maybe self heals and/or lifetaps) etc.

    I love variety but I don't like when it gets to the point that it starts to blur the line between classes.

    I like the idea of some abilities being specific to shield, 2-handers, dual weild, etc. too.

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    Rift Disciple Knives's Avatar
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    I agree on the diversity between warrior classes. Just because someone is a warrior doesn't mean they have to be a "tank".

    EverQuest II did this well from launch until a couple expansions ago. Now, however, every fighter class is expected to tank and only shadow knights are still recognized as DPS fighters (and I believe that is being nerfed soon? I've quit following the "new" EverQuest II).

    I like where Trion is going with the Reaver class, seems like it's heading back to some of the original roots of the "shadow knight" class (disease-based spells, DoTs, etc.).

    edit: Some ideas on diversity:
    1. The obvious - As mentioned above, different "combos" that can only be used while holding a shield, or when dual wielding, etc. (No EverQuest II "shield bash" when you're holding a two-handed sword - yes, they have that now).
    2. Reaver-Specific - Swarm pets. I really loved the Dark Templar swarm pet in Age of Conan that automatically put himself at the top of the hate list when summoned and could tank raid mobs effectively for whatever his duration was - 60 seconds?
    3. Paladin-Specific - A spec for healing. I don't mean being able to take over for the main healer in the group, but at least useful enough for solo and small groups, or large groups where a second healer would usually be needed. EverQuest II paladins used to be effective healers, they could ward (absorb damage) other players, their heals could crit, they had group heals, etc. Paladins in EverQuest (the original) even used heals to gain aggro sometimes.
    Last edited by Knives; 08-17-2010 at 04:46 PM.

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    Rift Disciple Drish's Avatar
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    Im all about diversity for tank classes, BUT i think one has to balance it out. being able to do great dps and wear heavy armor is a little unbalanced. Shadowknights from eq2 as said before are a great example of craptastic class balancing. they can solo WAAAAAAY better than the other tank classes, and most of the other classes for that matter.The class basically has a crap load of mitigation, damage shields and dots that heal, plus their 1h weapons do as much dmg as 2h weapons (pallies have this too). this has pretty much gone unchecked long enought that there arent really many other forms tanks anymore (at least on my underpopulated server). Ive seen several reasonably well geared SKs that at 90 can solo some of the lvl 80 raid content. on the other hand, they were the worst class in the game fore 4 years...

    I pesonally cringe when people mention dps, and tanking in the same sentence. I HATE grouping with tanks that are more concerned about making the parse rather than tanking. i dont know how many times ive wiped in a group and the tank says "maybe i should switch from offensive stance".

    but thats just my take...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zedric View Post
    Stoneskins, blocks, mitigation, avoidance, self heals, life taps, sword and board, 2-handers, dual wielding, straight taunts, taunt-over-times, single target, multi-target, etc. What kind of diversity and balance would you like to see in the warrior classes?
    They should be definied by how easily they are noticed. Their diversity is being recognised for it.

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    Plane Touched Ware's Avatar
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    So, does every warrior soul need to be built around tanking? Is there room for warriors that rely on agility and light armor instead of strength and heavy armor or should those builds be in the rogue calling?

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    Rift Chaser Chrome's Avatar
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    oh please no, none of that single target vs. aoe tank stuff lol..........darn SOE. It'll just make it to where certain zones, you'll only want to bring a certain tank.

    I do want some diversity, but I would like it more like a mitigation vs. avoidance type thing. Not done with my coffee yet, I'll have to think a little more in depth on this one.

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    Rift Disciple Kainzo's Avatar
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    I'm hoping that there is some support for the players who want to use a massive two hander. I'm all about the appeal of plate + big weapons.

    If they don't have something to that similar set up, I'm sure something else will rise to the occasion in one of the other classes.

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    Telaran mairsile's Avatar
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    I can't stand games whose tanks only means of protecting group members is limited to damage absorption skills. For a tank warrior - sword and board - please give them abilities to actually shield group members such as Guard: block an incoming melee or arrow attack directed at the person you are guarding with the percentage based on dexterity or some equivalent stat. Click on Guard skill, and then select the person you wish to shield. A colored radius around the tank's feet designates the area in which the person being guarded must remain to receive the benefit. This remains active for a duration of 5 minutes or until the tank cancels or guards someone else.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ware View Post
    So, does every warrior soul need to be built around tanking? Is there room for warriors that rely on agility and light armor instead of strength and heavy armor or should those builds be in the rogue calling?
    I agree. Every other starting class has a good mix for variety, why not the warrior. For instance, many games have the Berserker class which equips light-medium armor, wields a 2-handed weapon or dual wields, and is high DPS with low armor factor. For defense, they rely on evasion and parry.
    Last edited by mairsile; 08-19-2010 at 08:54 AM.

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    Shadowlander
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    I think a lot of people are trapped in the class-centric paradigm. This is the class I rolled, and I absolutely MUST be as good at every aspect of my role as the next guy, or my class is useless. I'm sure every "hardcore" player has either had guildmates that rerolled due to class balancing, or has done so themselves. It is never fun to know that the fact that you are "Class X" is holding you and your friends back in your progression.

    Fast-forward to the Soul system. If what I've heard is correct, they are planning on allowing people to have several saved templates. Every tank can have multiple setups that focus on certain areas of tanking, and they are not restricted to any specific class when setting these up. Suddenly, even if, to completely pulling example out of thin air, Champions are significantly better than Reavers at mitigating damage from a single target, it becomes less of an issue because any Warrior can have a template for that scenario.

    I can understand that most people, myself included, have a particular "class" in mind as the one they want to play. I have one I'm leaning towards myself. However, with the very free-form system they have in place for classes, I don't think balance will be quite the microscope setting that you see in other games. As long as each Soul has a place to shine, and the balance is not so significantly off in most areas as to render them useless, I don't think you'll run into the issue of, "No group wants my Paladin, they only want Reavers."

    Groups have always been able to get by with just about any setup, and once you reach the point in endgame where even the slightest advantage matters..... If it means that much to you, switch to that Soul for the encounter. I don't want to see the balance see-saw that every other game suffers from when it doesn't seem necessary.

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    Plane Touched Ware's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Siawn View Post
    As long as each Soul has a place to shine, and the balance is not so significantly off in most areas as to render them useless, I don't think you'll run into the issue of, "No group wants my Paladin, they only want Reavers."
    I agree. I don't know how doable this is gameplay wise but what I'd like to see are encounters that are tuned to a variety of different soul types. Definitely more than the number of roles that each calling can save. That way, there won't be one uber spec (or a set of only a few uber specs) that are applicable to all encounters.

    Add in a hefty cooldown for changing out roles and you have players that actually have to think about what roles to set for an evening.

    But, I can see the point that some make that if the game is more fun to play by being able to switch out souls on the fly between encounters then why bother with mechanics that limit how often this can be done?

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    Rift Master armengar's Avatar
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    I just want all tanks to be able to preform all jobs, and with the being able to use different souls that shouldnt be an issue.
    I hope this is the case I couldnt stand excuses why a praticular class couldnt tank, no defensive, lack of aoe hate, all of these things
    need to be close to the same, so we can bing the player and not the tank. I can see to some degree differing the mitigation on
    types of damage, ie physical, magical , ect ect. But not enough to make a big difference

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    Soulwalker
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    A DPS tank in pvp was the soul reason I picked Chosen in WAR. As it turned out the class was terrible to play, at launch and overtime. If the tank class in this game can hold it's own in pvp then I'm set to go Reaver or Paladin.

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