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Thread: There is still hope for Trion after all

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    RIFT Guide Writer Ninjahax's Avatar
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    Default There is still hope for Trion after all

    Quote Originally Posted by Kervik View Post
    Pyromancer
    • Increased the Burning Bright bonus to Fire damage to 0.4/0.8/1.2% for each point spent in the Pyromancer soul for PVE damage, PVP damage still uses the previous 0.2/0.4/0.6% bonus.
    • The damage of Fulminate and Cinder Burst has been reduced by 20% in PVP.
    • Inferno now triggers a global cooldown when it is cast, and the damage has been reduced by 10% in PvP.
    I don't care about the actual content of the post or how it relates to pyros particularly, but the fact that they're catching on that some abilities need to do more/less in PvP is a step in the right direction from a balancing perspective.

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    Ascendant TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ninjahax View Post
    I don't care about the actual content of the post or how it relates to pyros particularly, but the fact that they're catching on that some abilities need to do more/less in PvP is a step in the right direction from a balancing perspective.
    Awesome changes. :sarcasim:

    Pyro, now only mostly pointless in PVP and PVE. I'll have to test out a 51/10/5 split on PTS I guess. Congrats though QQers, even more dominator stormcallers headed your way in 1.3. Going to suck to be many of you lol
    Last edited by TheLeviathan; 06-16-2011 at 04:39 AM.
    Red ball + fulminate + really craptacular dom/pyro spec trying to hard cast transmog and pray your spell lands before some squirrel punching moron eats your controlled opp proc = +1 board warrior keeping mages from being realistically balanced in PVE or PVP. 1.0-1.2's best combo in the game. RIP FOTM Pyro rollers

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    Champion Lifeisdeath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    Awesome changes. :sarcasim:

    Pyro, now only mostly pointless in PVP and PVE. I'll have to test out a 51/10/5 split on PTS I guess. Congrats though QQers, even more dominator stormcallers headed your way in 1.3. Going to suck to be many of you lol
    We're used to it.

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    Sword of Telara Mr Malingers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    Awesome changes. :sarcasim:

    Pyro, now only mostly pointless in PVP and PVE. I'll have to test out a 51/10/5 split on PTS I guess. Congrats though QQers, even more dominator stormcallers headed your way in 1.3. Going to suck to be many of you lol
    It is a PvE damage boost, a pretty heavy one at that the modifier is upping fire damage by up to 30%? over what it used to be.

    And the Valor changes hurt Pyro PvP more than these here did.

    But the general idea of PvE/PvP modifiers opens up a lot of changes.

    Also there was always hope for Trion, the game is still really new.
    Maybe he just wanted to steal our wire cutters. You ever think of that?

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    Rift Chaser Drathmar's Avatar
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    I agree that despite whether the change itself is good or not (can't say because my only 50 is a rogue), the fact that they are at least showing movement towards separating some abilities like this is a huge step in the right direction.

    I have a feeling that doing it with this one ability is going to be kind of an initial test for it, see if the coding they have to do it works, what bugs are gonna pop up and such so that they can start easing this into other abilities over time.

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    Ascendant TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Malingers View Post
    It is a PvE damage boost, a pretty heavy one at that the modifier is upping fire damage by up to 30%? over what it used to be.

    And the Valor changes hurt Pyro PvP more than these here did.

    But the general idea of PvE/PvP modifiers opens up a lot of changes.

    Also there was always hope for Trion, the game is still really new.
    It's not a big enough PvE boost for pure pyro. This boost only makes ele/pyro better, by about 18%. Going for the "full monty" nets you another 12% but you lose IE and tempest, and there's no way 12% is worth it.

    Granted, I'm excited that they're FINALLY putting in mechanics to alter abilities from PVE to PVP. It means pyros (and many others) can finally be balanced properly for PVE without affecting PVP and vise versa. Having said that, doing this to pyro ONLY this patch is unfair, and the amount by which they want to nerf the damage is too high when you consider all the other bandaid nerfs they've hit pyro with up until this point.
    Red ball + fulminate + really craptacular dom/pyro spec trying to hard cast transmog and pray your spell lands before some squirrel punching moron eats your controlled opp proc = +1 board warrior keeping mages from being realistically balanced in PVE or PVP. 1.0-1.2's best combo in the game. RIP FOTM Pyro rollers

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    Sword of Telara Mr Malingers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    It's not a big enough PvE boost for pure pyro. This boost only makes ele/pyro better, by about 18%. Going for the "full monty" nets you another 12% but you lose IE and tempest, and there's no way 12% is worth it.

    Granted, I'm excited that they're FINALLY putting in mechanics to alter abilities from PVE to PVP. It means pyros (and many others) can finally be balanced properly for PVE without affecting PVP and vise versa. Having said that, doing this to pyro ONLY this patch is unfair, and the amount by which they want to nerf the damage is too high when you consider all the other bandaid nerfs they've hit pyro with up until this point.
    18% is still a big boost, and this mechanic adds to easy tweeking down the road when they can just increase it another .1% per point or something rather than having to make sweeping changes to the class.

    Even if the numbers behind it aren't perfect it's a PvE boost and a balance design change that can help keep long term stability now that ability mechanic changes should be for the most part unnecessary.

    The PvP changes aren't that big a deal tho. Inferno change was necessary, and the Fulm/Cinder change while probably unnecessary after the Valor and red ball changes is only a hit to burst which they are trying to tone down across the board.
    Maybe he just wanted to steal our wire cutters. You ever think of that?

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    Ascendant TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Malingers View Post
    18% is still a big boost, and this mechanic adds to easy tweeking down the road when they can just increase it another .1% per point or something rather than having to make sweeping changes to the class.

    Even if the numbers behind it aren't perfect it's a PvE boost and a balance design change that can help keep long term stability now that ability mechanic changes should be for the most part unnecessary.

    The PvP changes aren't that big a deal tho. Inferno change was necessary, and the Fulm/Cinder change while probably unnecessary after the Valor and red ball changes is only a hit to burst which they are trying to tone down across the board.
    Inferno change is fine, no issues there really. Only gripe I have is the 20% nerf is too much, especially if the pyro is foolish enough to stand in GoS and take a 30% nerf. 20% is just too much is all.

    Like I said, the groundwork being laid down right now is solid and it's just a matter of tweeking %'s, which is great. I just don't care for pyro being the only one getting the shaft like this and us having to live test the nerfs everyone else is going to get a month or more down the road.
    Last edited by TheLeviathan; 06-16-2011 at 06:55 AM.
    Red ball + fulminate + really craptacular dom/pyro spec trying to hard cast transmog and pray your spell lands before some squirrel punching moron eats your controlled opp proc = +1 board warrior keeping mages from being realistically balanced in PVE or PVP. 1.0-1.2's best combo in the game. RIP FOTM Pyro rollers

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    Sword of Telara Mr Malingers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    Like I said, the groundwork being laid down right now is solid and it's just a matter of tweeking %'s, which is great. I just don't care for pyro being the only one getting the shaft like this and us having to live test the nerfs everyone else is going to get a month or more down the road.
    It's gotta start somewhere. One patch cycle of awkwardness for 1 of 32 souls isn't a big deal.
    I know easy for me to say when it's not my preferred soul, but it's a net gain for the game.
    Maybe he just wanted to steal our wire cutters. You ever think of that?

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    RIFT Guide Writer Ninjahax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Malingers View Post
    It's gotta start somewhere. One patch cycle of awkwardness for 1 of 32 souls isn't a big deal.
    I know easy for me to say when it's not my preferred soul, but it's a net gain for the game.
    Agreed. I think that pyros were the best choice for a guinea pig. Whether they deserve it or not, they've had so much attention in the past couple patches that nerfing them is likely to upset the least amount of players.

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    Sez
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    Only gripe I have is the 20% nerf is too much
    Speaking for the community, most would say ANY nerf is too much.


    Remember what I've been saying since day 1?

    Dominator FoTM: 1.3

    I'm sticking to it.
    Sez is now Zes on Dayblind

    - Rogue Lead - <Gestalt> - Defiant - Dayblind Server -

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    Who gives a crap what the FotM will be. It was pyro in 1.1, Chlorolock in 1.2. Mages are far from useless or underpowered and it'll be the same in 1.3.


    As the only class/soul that could randomly target a rogue or whatever else and oneshot them it's far from surprising that they're getting hit with a nerf.

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    Champion of Telara Morituri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post

    Granted, I'm excited that they're FINALLY putting in mechanics to alter abilities from PVE to PVP. It means pyros (and many others) can finally be balanced properly for PVE without affecting PVP and vise versa.
    I think that was the point the OP was trying to make.

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    RIFT Guide Writer Ninjahax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morituri View Post
    I think that was the point the OP was trying to make.
    Yes, yes it was.

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    Champion AngelOfTheGuardians's Avatar
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    Now if Blizzard would do the same with WoW so the nerf/buff train wouldn't be so wild... It's now proven it's possible to make abilities work differently in PvE and PvP so it makes me wonder why Blizzard hasn't done that at all yet..

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