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Thread: Big Problem : Staying alive

  1. #1
    Ascendant Delphya's Avatar
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    Default Big Problem : Staying alive

    One of the biggest problems I see with Rift is the lack of ability to stay alive.

    Nobody likes to play a game where they die over and over again with almost nothing they can do to stay alive.

    This is where the poor design of the game becomes glaring; the lack of decent in combat healing mechanics with a low CD that is available to all callings/souls is detrimental to the games future.

    One of the reasons why Clerics are so prevalent is that the calling is one of the few that has the ability to heal in combat and this ability is available to every role and soul combination.

    Mages also have decent healing with the Chloro that can be added to any role/soul combination.

    Rogues have some ability to heal though not as prevalent as the Mages, but they also have a superior survival ability.

    Warriors are the forgotten bastard children of Rift, with the exception of the Paladin soul every 10 minutes they have no in combat healing available.

    I have noticed that the population seems to confirm this, the most populous is Clerics, next comes Mages, then Rogues and last and totally least is Warrior.

    The poor design of the game where the bandage can be bought and sold in the Auctioneer, but not available in the game shows that there was a intent to provide the players with a 'in combat' healing ability but due to either incompetence or ignorance it was not properly implemented.

    With the new changes in 1.3 I don't see the Warrior being improved in survival and I do see the Cleric improving in survival so I expect to see less Warriors and more Clerics, Mages and even Rogues.

    The biggest problem is that the Warrior has no ability to stay alive, just the addition of a Finisher that heals would make a huge impact to both the Rogue and Warrior souls.
    I don't like mean people, rude people and people who are not nice.

    Herp Derp : 1. An expression used when you yourself, has done somthing extremely stupid and dopey. 2. A phrase said by idiotic morons who think they are cooler then they actually are. *Dictionary definition

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    Ascendant BishopX's Avatar
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    yesterday i was in a warfront healing.

    I noticed a warrior at 80% and i started up a large heal on him. he died before I finished it...
    I then started to target the warrior that was closest to his location as he was also low on life and threw him an insta heal which crit him for 3k and then started up a lage heal only to have him killed before i could finish. I then targeted the ranger in front of me and applied a hot dispite him only being at 95%. he was then popped on by a stealther.... I started up my heal and he was dead before i finished.

    I head back to spawn and I hear .."we are losing becaue we dont have HEALERS !!!!"
    which is amazing because i am sitting there with 3k healing done but if any of the people had actually lived more than 3 sec I would have closer to 20k


    damage is just too high

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    General of Telara Relair's Avatar
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    No in combat healing? Perhaps you need to look harder. BM, Reaver, and Riftblade do just off the top of my head, I can't remember if any others do. Its not that good but its not nothing at all. If there were good ways for warriors to heal themselves in combat they could solo almost anything, what do you want trion to do about that?

  4. #4
    Soulwalker
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    Well, I cant speak to warfront issues, but in the PvE environment I dont see survivabilty issues at all. My mage lives through pulls of 3 or 4 mobs without difficulty, and the only time people die in dungeons is because someone makes a bad mistake or there is some unusual circumstance like the healer goes LD.

    What problem are you seeing exactly? If you're pulling one or two level 50s and are level 50 yourself, and you are still dying, it's more likely a play style issue or not knowing the correct skill rotation or something - it should be easy to fix.

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    aux
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    Quote Originally Posted by BishopX View Post
    yesterday i was in a warfront healing.

    I noticed a warrior at 80% and i started up a large heal on him. he died before I finished it...
    I then started to target the warrior that was closest to his location as he was also low on life and threw him an insta heal which crit him for 3k and then started up a lage heal only to have him killed before i could finish. I then targeted the ranger in front of me and applied a hot dispite him only being at 95%. he was then popped on by a stealther.... I started up my heal and he was dead before i finished.

    I head back to spawn and I hear .."we are losing becaue we dont have HEALERS !!!!"
    which is amazing because i am sitting there with 3k healing done but if any of the people had actually lived more than 3 sec I would have closer to 20k


    damage is just too high
    3 sec heals are bad in pvp ><
    I'm so BORED

  6. #6
    Ascendant Delphya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Relair View Post
    No in combat healing? Perhaps you need to look harder. BM, Reaver, and Riftblade do just off the top of my head, I can't remember if any others do. Its not that good but its not nothing at all. If there were good ways for warriors to heal themselves in combat they could solo almost anything, what do you want trion to do about that?
    The problem with the warrior healing in the game now is that...

    A. It heals too little.
    B. You need to go way up into the tree to access it.

    To fix this, the heal should be a base or at the most 2 tier ability.
    From level 1-40 BM has no heals, the Reaver heal relies upon DoTs one of which is the 31 pt ability and finally the Riftstalker's only heal is a 44 pt ability. The only decent heal is the Paladin heal but it needs to have the CD lowered by about 90%.

    None of these are of any use to low level players who are the ones who need it the most.

    Many players who start Warriors become disillusioned when they die and they can do nothing about it, this is poor game design. You never leave the player with no chance; lowering CD's on potions to 15 seconds, adding in a bandage that can be used in combat or allowing drinking while in combat would all help fix this glaring problem.
    Last edited by Delphya; 06-14-2011 at 10:17 PM.
    I don't like mean people, rude people and people who are not nice.

    Herp Derp : 1. An expression used when you yourself, has done somthing extremely stupid and dopey. 2. A phrase said by idiotic morons who think they are cooler then they actually are. *Dictionary definition

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    Ascendant mo0trix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delphya View Post

    Nobody likes to play a game where they die over and over again with almost nothing they can do to stay alive.

    Demon's Souls fans may disagree with that statement.

    Every death is a lesson... and either you learn from them or you don't.

  8. #8
    Ascendant Delphya's Avatar
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    On topic:
    I am not referring to leveling, I am referring to playing the game.

    I have seen a huge influx of Clerics and I feel it is because they can heal themselves, callings with extremely limited healing ability seem to be losing ground and it appears that there is a huge deficit at higher levels.

    Some form of in-combat healing would help out these calling/souls by giving them a chance to survive, as it is even if they kill the opponent they remain in combat preventing them from drinking so they die if their potions are on cool down.

    The game really needs to have bandages implemented that can be used in-combat, channeled so they are interrupt-able and low cost or manufacture-able by outfitters.

    Quote Originally Posted by mo0trix View Post
    Demon's Souls fans may disagree with that statement.

    Every death is a lesson... and either you learn from them or you don't.
    This is Rift, not another game.
    Last edited by Eorith; 06-15-2011 at 03:05 AM. Reason: Reply to a post that was removed
    I don't like mean people, rude people and people who are not nice.

    Herp Derp : 1. An expression used when you yourself, has done somthing extremely stupid and dopey. 2. A phrase said by idiotic morons who think they are cooler then they actually are. *Dictionary definition

  9. #9
    General of Telara livnthedream's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delphya View Post
    On topic:
    I am not referring to leveling, I am referring to playing the game.

    I have seen a huge influx of Clerics and I feel it is because they can heal themselves, callings with extremely limited healing ability seem to be losing ground and it appears that there is a huge deficit at higher levels.

    Some form of in-combat healing would help out these calling/souls by giving them a chance to survive, as it is even if they kill the opponent they remain in combat preventing them from drinking so they die if their potions are on cool down.

    The game really needs to have bandages implemented that can be used in-combat, channeled so they are interrupt-able and low cost or manufacture-able by outfitters.



    This is Rift, not another game.
    no, your seeing an influx of clerics cause its the current fotm for both pve and pvp. if your having ANY issue with pve leveling then its an issue with either playstyle, rotation, or gear. the soul system gives you a TON of versatility, a little cc, pet offtanking, tank abilities go a long way. now if your referring to pvp, at lower levels it really doesnt matter. thats why you cant get prestige before 50, and why you cant really access your pvp soul, or why classes in general arent even slightly balanced at lower level.

    your entire arguement and what your pulling for is mitigated a ton at 50 with valor, and just general common sense. pay attention to where you are, where stuff is at, and dont overpull. if your making even basic mistakes like these you SHOULD die. if your doing the above, and still dieing then find your nearest crafter, get a couple decent blues made, oh and spend your points in your souls, that should help you a ton.
    Last edited by Eorith; 06-15-2011 at 03:06 AM. Reason: Reply to a post that was removed/rude comment

  10. #10
    Soulwalker Drakein's Avatar
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    Dear mages, clerics, rogues that posted comments here without knowing exactly what they are talking about (that excludes Delphya who I'm positive knows exactly what the situation is)

    I've played a lot of warrior and rogue builds no matter how ridiculous some of them might seem.
    My warrior is rank 4 and my rogue is rank 5 completely leveled and equipped by only Warfronts.

    Do you guys have any idea how exactly a warrior can "heal"?
    Let me enlighten you because from some of the comments it is clear that some of you don't even know what each warrior soul does.

    The best healing that can be achieved by a warrior is in combination of reaver/warlord/paladin if you manage to get some of the warlord abilities to heal back a portion of the CRITICAL DEALT ON YOU with the paladin ability to heal a porting of the damage you reflect back ON SUCCESSFUL BLOCK (which can not be more than the base damage of you ONE HAND WEAPON) and the magnificent drains of the reaver, which are like 35-80 per 1-5 targets each 2 seconds and the occasional 200 per 1-10 target OVER 12 seconds (oh and if you're lucky and there are 5 targets around you, you got 5 combo points and your "Master of the Abyss" is not on CD.

    Just imagine this great healing. It is indeed very useful in the following situations:
    a) you got people critting you for around 100 so you can heal ... 15 on each crit you get
    b) you got people hitting you for 100, you block all the time and return to them the mighty damage of 30-50 and heal by the same monstrous ammount
    c) you got 5-10 people around you which you are happily cursing with the 1 very useful DOT. They run around unaware of your presence and you leach the total amount of 100-200 per 2 seconds off them. You can then build up 3 combo points and hit the finisher to heal yourself for exceptional 1200

    Of course there is a slim chance of about 99.99% that in each of the situations above the unspeakable might happen. Like:
    a) instead of receiving 100HP crits you get hit by a 2k fulminate (or similar underpowered and not often used ability) at which point you really do some healing of around 200 points. Of course the next hit on you corrects that mistake for good (or until the next encounter)

    b) the hits you block are just a little over 50 with about 400 so your heals 50 per block are quite unnoticeable

    c) those 5-10 people you are happily running among suddenly decide that they don't want some guy with a red name to run around spreading disease and look at you (in which case you instantly receive damage from 10x300 ~ 10x1000) Of course your diseases stay on but that brings you little to no comfort at the spawn point.

    Wake up guys. I rely on those heals (or at least on the reaver heals) 100% f the time. At good times I'm able to reach over 12k drains per warfrond.

    What is 8k drain compared to the average of 60~90k damage I receive during that warfront?

    Warriors have the healing powers of some mystical never seen never spoken of gods!

    Everyone knows they heal like A LOT, but none of their followers, not even they themselves have ever witnessed an actual healing.

  11. #11
    General of Telara livnthedream's Avatar
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    drakein, we get it, warriors dont have an amazing healing ability. neither do rogues. mages are a little better off, but in a solo situation soul purge is doing most of the healing, and at high valor levels its not like that spec does any real damage with dots ticking in the single to double digits. yes, clerics are borderline op. having a main healing soul paired with tanking abilities will do that. how the class needs to be changed is something that im sure trion is working on considering just how much qq there has been about it. pvp in general is a TEAM game. in a team atmosphere clerics are fairly balanced if you know where your dispell/silence buttons are.

  12. #12
    Plane Touched xShay's Avatar
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    Default The answer is...

    One calling, one soul. That will make everyone happy.....

    That is what threads like this are all about. They have this, I WANT.

    To the OP...

    I've tried various ways of answering your post without being insulting towards your skill level since apparently you die a lot.

    I'm yet to come up with a way to do so.

  13. #13
    Soulwalker Drakein's Avatar
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    Actually I'm not complaining.
    I would not want warriors to be able to heal.

    Clear separation of roles is especially important in PvP ballance.
    Tanks must survive
    Healers must heal
    DpS must dps

    The main problem is that there are specific combinations from some of the main callings that can both survive and heal, and some of them can even DPS while doing it.
    Warriors though were left behind in the chase, probably crippled by our heavy armor (which gives us no survivability whatsoever against spell or elemental damage).

    I just got amused by some of the comments and by the continuous lack of common sense on Trion side.

    Patch 1.3 adds exactly a big nothing in the right direction.

    Everyone will play dominator/some_other_mage , clerics will continue to be constantly immune to CC due to the major flaw in diminishing returns (CC -> dispel, second CC -> dispell, no more CC ... fun).
    Stealthers will continue to be immune to all damage after hiding-reappearing thus successfully destroying 2-5 people by simply poisoning them (15 seconds poison dot that ticks for over 100 per dot on a rank6 fully buffed)
    Marksmen will continue crippling whole parties with the "eradicate" skill.

    And of course warriors will continue being the heroes of warfronts that manage to hold the line just as long as they are being nuked by no more than 2 people and are being healed at the same time by at least 1 personal healer (which is btw not longer than 15-20 seconds at good days).

    Can't remove poisons, can't heal, can't run, all you can do is stay and fight, and hope that you get 1vs1 at least for this fight, which might give you a chance of actually killing someone with your grade equipment.

    It does take an exceptional amount of skill (or luck) to play warrior and be effective in warfront these days ];)

    P.S
    And yes, I have a rogue, a mage and a cleric level 50. All leveled in warfront all the way.
    I play on my warrior because that's what I wanted to play and I'll not re-roll just because the dev team can't tell white from black.

  14. #14
    Plane Walker
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    Good Lord. People were complaining there was too much healing in warfronts, now there's not enough? FFS.

    Moving on...

  15. #15
    Rift Chaser inaliz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delphya View Post
    One of the biggest problems I see with Rift is the lack of ability to stay alive.

    Nobody likes to play a game where they die over and over again with almost nothing they can do to stay alive.

    This is where the poor design of the game becomes glaring; the lack of decent in combat healing mechanics with a low CD that is available to all callings/souls is detrimental to the games future.

    One of the reasons why Clerics are so prevalent is that the calling is one of the few that has the ability to heal in combat and this ability is available to every role and soul combination.

    Mages also have decent healing with the Chloro that can be added to any role/soul combination.

    Rogues have some ability to heal though not as prevalent as the Mages, but they also have a superior survival ability.

    Warriors are the forgotten bastard children of Rift, with the exception of the Paladin soul every 10 minutes they have no in combat healing available.

    I have noticed that the population seems to confirm this, the most populous is Clerics, next comes Mages, then Rogues and last and totally least is Warrior.

    The poor design of the game where the bandage can be bought and sold in the Auctioneer, but not available in the game shows that there was a intent to provide the players with a 'in combat' healing ability but due to either incompetence or ignorance it was not properly implemented.

    With the new changes in 1.3 I don't see the Warrior being improved in survival and I do see the Cleric improving in survival so I expect to see less Warriors and more Clerics, Mages and even Rogues.

    The biggest problem is that the Warrior has no ability to stay alive, just the addition of a Finisher that heals would make a huge impact to both the Rogue and Warrior souls.
    Problem is people like you who are complete newbies think you know how this type of game works and then you think you have the gall to tell others what it should be like. Sit back listen and learn how to play. After a few years of doing this maybe you will have some stich of an idea of what's going on. I'm not trying to be mean but honestly I have no idea what you are even talking about!

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