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Thread: Kind of Discouraged =(

  1. #1
    Rift Disciple Aikeiko's Avatar
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    Default Kind of Discouraged =(

    OK so, I got my Bard down. Still letting my motifs fall off for a second before I reapply them, something I'm working on correcting. Also working on keeping my Debuffs up on bosses / mobs and hope they aren't randomly falling off.

    Though what is discouraging me is how people talk about Support. I've seen a lot of people say they don't want support in groups for higher level dungeons that they are bad...while I have a Ranger and Blade dancer spec, I highly prefer Bard over them, as I have fun playing it.

    Is this something I'm going to have to worry about? Should I press on or drop the Bard as a solo thing (though I really rather not do so) I plan on doing T1 and T2 Dungeons as well as Raids once I am properly geared to do so...but the way people (at least on my realm) talk it looks like I may not be doing so as a Bard =(

  2. #2
    Rift Master
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    There was enough room for support pre 1.2 in experts dungeons, groups were actively looking for bards/chloros/archons all the time. After gutting of experts, yeah there is probably no room for support character other than one bard and one archon per raid.

  3. #3
    Soulwalker
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    Use a battlebard spec... still do decent dps and can solo heal any T1 or T2, with a decently geared tank.
    Battle Bard Spec
    Last edited by Sorbid; 06-14-2011 at 05:55 AM.

  4. #4
    Soulwalker
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    rotation:
    cadence, cadence, deadly strike
    cadence, cadence, coda of resto
    cadence, cadence, deadly strike
    repeat
    (380 crit cadence heals in my gear)

  5. #5
    aux
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    Support is just for 20-man instances.

    If I dare to go with Archon in a 5-man, after a few mobs I get to hear "can you go dps please, our dps is low". And indeed, after I switch we move almost twice as fast.
    Oh well
    Last edited by aux; 06-14-2011 at 06:01 AM.
    I'm so BORED

  6. #6
    Prophet of Telara
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    Dont listen to the above, as a healer i love Bards, Archons in 5 person groups.

  7. #7
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    For bards in a party, it is mostly their preference, think about it 'economically', ie. weighing the costs verses the next best option.

    Let's assume that you do 0 damage as a bard but you buff you're team's damage.

    if we have a tank, healer doing no damage, you have 2 other dpsers doing all the damage, you have to increase their dps by 50% each to not have lost anything. (seeing this, a raid with 12 dpsers, you only have to increase their dps by about 9% to be effective).

    So the problem is mainly that you might benefit the run more by going dps, and also default 51p bard has terrible dps.

    However, if you are willing to put in the research, there are many bard hybrids that can heal, dps and buff (such as bard/bd) that would definitely be useful to a party (whether this change in flavour will be desired by you is a different story).

  8. #8
    Rift Disciple Obyran's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wingedarr0w View Post
    For bards in a party, it is mostly their preference, think about it 'economically', ie. weighing the costs verses the next best option.

    Let's assume that you do 0 damage as a bard but you buff you're team's damage.

    if we have a tank, healer doing no damage, you have 2 other dpsers doing all the damage, you have to increase their dps by 50% each to not have lost anything. (seeing this, a raid with 12 dpsers, you only have to increase their dps by about 9% to be effective).

    So the problem is mainly that you might benefit the run more by going dps, and also default 51p bard has terrible dps.

    However, if you are willing to put in the research, there are many bard hybrids that can heal, dps and buff (such as bard/bd) that would definitely be useful to a party (whether this change in flavour will be desired by you is a different story).
    ^this.

    I <3 Bard and have been playing one since beta. It's not all I play anymore, but still a favorite.
    Obryn- 50 Cleric: Druid, Warden, Justicar
    Devilweed- 50 Mage: Chloromancer, Warlock, Elementalist
    Obyran- 50 Rouge: "Bard"
    Defiant of Briarcliff <Damaged PvPness>


  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by wingedarr0w View Post
    For bards in a party, it is mostly their preference, think about it 'economically', ie. weighing the costs verses the next best option.

    Let's assume that you do 0 damage as a bard but you buff you're team's damage.

    if we have a tank, healer doing no damage, you have 2 other dpsers doing all the damage, you have to increase their dps by 50% each to not have lost anything. (seeing this, a raid with 12 dpsers, you only have to increase their dps by about 9% to be effective).

    So the problem is mainly that you might benefit the run more by going dps, and also default 51p bard has terrible dps.

    However, if you are willing to put in the research, there are many bard hybrids that can heal, dps and buff (such as bard/bd) that would definitely be useful to a party (whether this change in flavour will be desired by you is a different story).
    You're totally right but your argument is largely irrelevant .. and will become more so if those screaming for DPS meters get their way .. because a good CC player does little to no damage, and the clueless leaders who'll use their precious meters will be too stupid to understand the benefit the CCer is giving the group/raid.
    Last edited by Kerin; 06-14-2011 at 06:50 AM.

  10. #10
    Rift Disciple Obyran's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerin View Post
    You're totally right but your argument is largely irrelevant .. and will become more so if those screaming for DPS meters get their way .. because a good CC player does little to no damage, and the clueless leaders who'll use their precious meters will be too stupid to understand the benefit the CCer is giving the group/raid.
    I've never been kicked out of a group because my bard dps was low. If those are the kind of people you play with then that is your mistake.
    Obryn- 50 Cleric: Druid, Warden, Justicar
    Devilweed- 50 Mage: Chloromancer, Warlock, Elementalist
    Obyran- 50 Rouge: "Bard"
    Defiant of Briarcliff <Damaged PvPness>


  11. #11
    Shield of Telara DeadlySight's Avatar
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    The problem is, as a Chloro I can solo heal any T2 w/o any help whatsoever, Most decent clerics can do the same.

    If your bard healing is completely useless all you're doing is giving motifs.. Motifs don't make up for the 800+ DPS loss in a 5 man. CC? There's not a single pull where CC is needed or even helps in Experts I can think of. Every pull is as easy as AoE Aggro on tank/AoE DPS
    Lee Trevino, on why he has never had a golf coach: "When I find one who can beat me, I'll listen."

  12. #12
    Plane Walker Diay's Avatar
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    95% of 5-man content I would rather have a DPS than a support. The content is not hard enough to justify needing a second healer and you just don't add enough to the group to give up another DPS slot.

    I'm sure raiding is different, but in 5-mans be ready to get asked to switch to DPS every group and only bard certain bosses with heavy aoe damage.
    Last edited by Diay; 06-14-2011 at 07:09 AM.

  13. #13
    Shadowlander
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    So for the most part...

    1) A bard is undesirable for most raids/dungeons/end game content?
    2) DPS is superior to anything once you have a tank + dedicated healer?
    3) What about a bard in PVP?

    I'm asking all this because I just rolled a bard primarily because it's a piece of cake to solo, but I also thought I would be very valuable to teams.

  14. #14
    Rift Disciple
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    Support in 5 man dungeons to be seems designed to support an under-geared healer/tank and in some cases assist in aoe healing intensive situations. However, as your tank/healer gear up support goes the way of the past honestly. As a main tank for my guild, I would prefer 3 dps over 2 and 1 support. Why? Our healers are more than capable of solo healing T2's and my gear makes that extremely easy. 3 dps = faster = more runs.

    Just my opinion. Everyone wants a bard in a raid, so you still have that to look forward too.

  15. #15
    Shield of Telara Kayden Fox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sorbid View Post
    rotation:
    cadence, cadence, deadly strike
    cadence, cadence, coda of resto
    cadence, cadence, deadly strike
    repeat
    (380 crit cadence heals in my gear)
    Wrong.

    Cadence x 2 > Deadly Strike
    Cadence x 3 > DS
    Cadence x 3 > DS
    ...
    ...
    ...
    Welcome to Rift 1.2
    No Challenge. No Reward. No Point.

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