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Thread: Is support a limiting factor?

  1. #1
    Shadowlander
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    Default Is support a limiting factor?

    Hey I was just curious if people end up waiting on support in the LFD like they do for tanks and healers. Also, how useful do you feel support is in 5-mans?

  2. #2
    Rift Disciple Gabbelgak's Avatar
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    Support is worthless for any group that isn't horrible. I queue up for support still and if I get picked as that role I just go dps until it's obvious either the tank or healer are fail and then may go bard to help the group actually finish.

    In a non pug group? 100% worthless. Last time I used bard was when I was the main healer for my guild group in the dungeon, and before that pre dungeon difficulty nerf.

  3. #3
    Shadowlander
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabbelgak View Post
    Support is worthless for any group that isn't horrible. I queue up for support still and if I get picked as that role I just go dps until it's obvious either the tank or healer are fail and then may go bard to help the group actually finish.

    In a non pug group? 100% worthless. Last time I used bard was when I was the main healer for my guild group in the dungeon, and before that pre dungeon difficulty nerf.
    I'm pretty new to the game, only level 30 and only done maybe 8 dungeons.

    I find support to be worthwhile, but I guess I really don't know the difference.

    Is 2 dps + 1 support less damage than 3 dps? I always figured the buffs made up the difference.

    I find Bards to be a wonderful addition at my level at least. The combined healing of Bard + Healer (Cleric or Chloromancer) seems to keep everyone alive pretty easily.

    Maybe it changes at 50 but it seems like Support do a good job at my level.

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    Telaran Bartolomeus D's Avatar
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    Bard's also do a good job at 50 no worries... don't believe ppl who say support is worthless.
    Bajdovan - Rogue

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    Rift Chaser fervor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bartolomeus D View Post
    Bard's also do a good job at 50 no worries... don't believe ppl who say support is worthless.
    I play a warrior tank, healer cleric and healer mage. The only time I would want a rogue to play a bard is for a few bosses that do a lot of AoE damage. For everything else, rogue DPS is a lot more valuable.

    I don't mind so much if the rogue (or whoever) is playing a hybrid DPS/support build. In other words, most of the time, they are putting out good DPS numbers...and if something goes bad, they can step up and provide a little healing.

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    Shadowlander abstarns's Avatar
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    "...end up waiting on support in the LFD like they do for tanks and healers"

    Generally no. I have yet to meet a rogue that doesn't have a bard spec.

    When I get picked as support for the lfg, I ask the healer up front if they feel comfortable healing the content so that I may go dps. I also tell them I can switch back if we begin to struggle but I rarely find that to be true.

    Bards (really the only support class I consider as cholors are straight up healers in my mind and archons are rare) bring a lot to raids/rifts but very little to five mans in most circumstances.

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    Rift Disciple
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    Just a little note: Support is not about healing, it's about buffs/debuffs and a little about healing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Agnu View Post
    Just a little note: Support is not about healing, it's about buffs/debuffs and a little about healing.
    I think the point is whether the buffs/debuffs warrant losing the additional dps. It appears the general consensus is that no it does not.

  9. #9
    Plane Walker Diay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by abstarns View Post
    Generally no. I have yet to meet a rogue that doesn't have a bard spec.
    Hi i'm a rogue without a bard spec. Well technically I have a 51 pt bard role but it only exists to SW res when no one else can. Zero interest in playing that soul.

    Just a little note: Support is not about healing, it's about buffs/debuffs and a little about healing.
    There are two limiting factors in how fast our 5 man is cleared.

    A) DPS
    B) Heals necessary to keep everyone alive.

    If I don't need your healing and we do less dps with you as support than if you played DPS, you are slowing down my run and I don't want you. I don't give a fat baby's **** if the boss has 40 less spellpower when he dies.
    Last edited by Diay; 06-14-2011 at 08:08 AM.

  10. #10
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    Bard don't to terrible dps in 5man...atleast if they can actually play. Most time I support mostly myself in a full pug, because the other gimp 300 dps don't have much use out of my support.

  11. #11
    Rift Disciple Numtini's Avatar
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    Just a little note: Support is not about healing, it's about buffs/debuffs and a little about healing.
    I don't think that's the case for the LFD system. My cleric can queue as support and has virtually no buffs at all to offer. I assume being allowed to queue as support has to do with the justicar group healing stuff.

    My warlord warrior, essentially an offtank with heavy buffing, cannot queue as support.

  12. #12
    Rift Master Leiloni's Avatar
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    I think Aion got it right with a support class when they created the Chanter. Has nice mantras for small but effectives buff combinations you can put up and ignore (but you need to decide which to use, you can't just use all your buffs unlike some of RIFT's classes), two of your typical HP/Defense long term buffs, and then it had some great short term buffs, great CDs, groupwide shields, off-healing capabilties, and fairly good dps with some nice debuffs.

    The debuffs I found lacking but in terms of the variety of skills available it was nice. But it also forced you to decide what skills you'd use when and gave you skills to help save a group through tough circumstances, or give them the extra short term dps boost they need for a boss, etc. It's not like a Bard where you just spam all your buffs nonstop regardless and your heals, maybe an extra heal here or there but there's not a lot of decisionmaking. You can have a simple mindless rotation and your effect is not as essential as it should be. If you didn't have a Chanter, you noticed it.

    I think the support roles here need to be made more needed, but also less mindless for the person playing it. Buffs that matter, skills I can use situationally to have a noticeable effect on the group, etc. I also think Trion needs to revamp the Warlord into a full on support soul instead of a Tanking soul.

    /endrant. I love support character's having played a Chanter in Aion but RIFT's support souls need a big revamp IMO, and the need for them in 5 mans needs to be bigger. Currently they're all a bit of a disappointment.
    Last edited by Leiloni; 06-14-2011 at 08:59 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Numtini View Post
    I don't think that's the case for the LFD system. My cleric can queue as support and has virtually no buffs at all to offer. I assume being allowed to queue as support has to do with the justicar group healing stuff.

    My warlord warrior, essentially an offtank with heavy buffing, cannot queue as support.
    warlords are tanks.

    many tanks use heavy warlord specs.

    notice how every buff you have puts out massive aoe threat if you have battlefield awareness up?

    and seriously, how many 5 mans would be better off if an off tank joined? I'd kick someone that joined as an off tank and ignore them seconds later.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leiloni View Post
    I think Aion got it right with a support class when they created the Chanter. Has nice mantras for small but effectives buff combinations you can put up and ignore (but you need to decide which to use, you can't just use all your buffs unlike some of RIFT's classes), two of your typical HP/Defense long term buffs, and then it had some great short term buffs, great CDs, groupwide shields, off-healing capabilties, and fairly good dps with some nice debuffs.

    The debuffs I found lacking but in terms of the variety of skills available it was nice. But it also forced you to decide what skills you'd use when and gave you skills to help save a group through tough circumstances, or give them the extra short term dps boost they need for a boss, etc. It's not like a Bard where you just spam all your buffs nonstop regardless and your heals, maybe an extra heal here or there but there's not a lot of decisionmaking. You can have a simple mindless rotation and your effect is not as essential as it should be. If you didn't have a Chanter, you noticed it.

    I think the support roles here need to be made more needed, but also less mindless for the person playing it. Buffs that matter, skills I can use situationally to have a noticeable effect on the group, etc. I also think Trion needs to revamp the Warlord into a full on support soul instead of a Tanking soul.

    /endrant. I love support character's having played a Chanter in Aion but RIFT's support souls need a big revamp IMO, and the need for them in 5 mans needs to be bigger. Currently they're all a bit of a disappointment.
    Agree with this. In my experience Chanters were highly desired in groups and you definately noticed when and how they were helping. The support souls in Rift seem way too spammy and not as situational. Devs, go study the Chanter class in Aion, it's one of the few things they did right

  15. #15
    Rift Chaser inaliz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpacafur View Post
    Hey I was just curious if people end up waiting on support in the LFD like they do for tanks and healers. Also, how useful do you feel support is in 5-mans?
    A support or healing class wll always be a limiting factor because you need to rely on your team to do get the job done. You are just enhancing what the group does. An amazing thing if you're group is good. An incredibly frustrating thing if you're team is bad. This is just the way it is so I suggest finding a good group.

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