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Thread: Stop it.

  1. #1
    dmv
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    Champion of Telara dmv's Avatar
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    Default Stop it.

    Seriously, Trion isn't making the game unbalanced. Yes, there are alot of marksmen, and yes eradicate is annoying, but Trion's come a LONG way from 1.0.
    If people keep having this knee-jerk reaction of "OMG THAT SOUL JUST KILLED ME!!!!1!!! NERF IT NOAW TRION OR IAMMA CANCEL MY SUB!!!!!" the game is just going to die out.

    Is the game close to balance? In my opinion yes.
    Are there classes that have the edge over others? In my opinion yes.
    Should people freak the **** out every time a soul counters theirs? Absolutely not.

    I'm just waiting for the thread that calls out all marksmen, pyros, and wardens as socialists trying to "push a single payer system down the throats of the american people."
    Retired due to lack of PVP content and boring/repetitive game mechanics.

  2. #2
    Soulwalker
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    Nice post I agree and honestly I'm happy with the effort of Trion better than most mmo publishers

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    Yes the game is more balanced. There are a few glaring balance issues still floating around, but it's getting better with every patch, but....

    Eradicate still needs a CD like every other purge in the game. It's a small thing really.
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    Plane Walker
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    I think the main problem is not so much that people think the game is getting less balanced, it's more that people are losing faith in the devs ability to ever make it well balanced.

    The reason why Eradicate is such a huge flashpoint issue with this game is simply that in order for a game designer to sit down and say "I'm going to create a spammable ability that utterly obliterates every single thing in the game that is based on the buff mechanic, which most classes utilize in some regard, and some classes are completely dependent on" that game designer just has to be really really bad at what he does.

    At no point in time should that seem like a good idea to anyone who gets payed to figure out how a game should work.

    A meaningful rework of dispels, both offensive and defensive would have been to first normalize the relative effect of buffs, because there is just too much of a gaping chasm between a stack of searing vitality and Lifegiving Veil in terms of how important they are. Making both of them countered by the same mechanic just doesn't make sense, because it means that a purge will do absolutely nothing when it hits the one, and cripple the target when it hits the other.

    Once that would have been adressed there could have been a sensible number of purges allowed for a character, that makes them a useful tactical tool, but not just an all encompassing "Buffs no longer exist in PvP"...


    The real issue is that whether its balanced or not, being at the mercy of someone who thinks stuff like that is a good idea takes the fun out of the game. With an MMO it's always an investment of time, and if you stop trusting the devs behind the game you no longer feel like making that investment...

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    Plane Walker Deioth's Avatar
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    How are things closer to balance when we have an underperforming, crutch-reliant calling? I'd call that worse. Especially given what eradicate does.
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    Plane Walker Vandrin's Avatar
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    rogues defending glaring imbalance problems and claiming its perfectly fine so they can stay OP

    /thread

    seriously though, 1 ability should not hard counter ANYTHING. Saying that "eradicate only purges abilities so its not OP" is like saying titan strike crits in 1.0 were perfectly fine because it had a chance to not crit. or fulminate/cinder burst in 1.1 was fine because it would only be a 6k crit if they had FO up. You all cried about these because they hard countered everyone because of the sheer damage they did.

    Now when its the rogue's turn to be able to hard counter chloromancer, archon, bard, warden etc you say no no its fine please trion leave it the way it is! at best 1 soul should counter another, weather it be through a rotation that is designed to lock the other down or simply out last them. eradicate should NOT be the key reason rogues can now beat most classes. I have no problem if a rogue uses eradicate in a rotation to remove key buffs or anything, I do have a problem with rogues using it every second ability and being the 1 soul reason their side won.

    There is no way to effectively reach the marksman standing back without painting a target on your head So the argument of "he's doing no damage just go kill him" is pointless, also if you do reach the marksman there's next to no chance that they will ignore you and let you kill them.


    PS: I'm a rogue and know this **** with MM is over buffed.

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    Ascendant Stigas's Avatar
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    Replace "Marksmen" with "Pyros", and pretend Mages were fine in 1.1.

    That's what I thought, ****ing hypocrites.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vandrin View Post
    rogues defending glaring imbalance problems and claiming its perfectly fine so they can stay OP

    /thread

    seriously though, 1 ability should not hard counter ANYTHING. Saying that "eradicate only purges abilities so its not OP" is like saying titan strike crits in 1.0 were perfectly fine because it had a chance to not crit. or fulminate/cinder burst in 1.1 was fine because it would only be a 6k crit if they had FO up. You all cried about these because they hard countered everyone because of the sheer damage they did.

    Now when its the rogue's turn to be able to hard counter chloromancer, archon, bard, warden etc you say no no its fine please trion leave it the way it is! at best 1 soul should counter another, weather it be through a rotation that is designed to lock the other down or simply out last them. eradicate should NOT be the key reason rogues can now beat most classes. I have no problem if a rogue uses eradicate in a rotation to remove key buffs or anything, I do have a problem with rogues using it every second ability and being the 1 soul reason their side won.

    There is no way to effectively reach the marksman standing back without painting a target on your head So the argument of "he's doing no damage just go kill him" is pointless, also if you do reach the marksman there's next to no chance that they will ignore you and let you kill them.


    PS: I'm a rogue and know this **** with MM is over buffed.
    The only problem with Eradicate, quite honestly, is its ability to strip certain skills that entire soul combinations revolve around, e.g. Life Giving Veil. If that were made a passive buff in the Chloromancer tree, all the problems would go away. Eradicate is the much-needed counter to the PvE-esque buff happy groups that run Shammicars, Tanks, Archons, Wardens, and Bards in a petty attempt to out-last any opposition. It's not strategic, intelligent, and should have never been encouraged. At least now a moronic Cleric will think twice before slapping on their 8 or so buffs and running into the fray.

    Sadly, if the general nerfing trend stays true, one of two things will happen. Either Eradicate will be pseudo-nerfed so that it works essentially the same, but with a minuscule drawback (think GoS), or it will be over-nerfed to stem the tide of tears from the terrible players in Rift. Here's hoping it's not the latter.

    Just an addendum: The only broken aspect of Pyromancers was Ground of Skill and it's ability to prevent all forms of CC. People complaining about high crits are just fools who ran into a Redball Pyro's face and thought they'd come out unmolested.
    Last edited by Magipants; 05-22-2011 at 08:46 AM.

  9. #9
    Plane Walker Vandrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magipants View Post
    The only problem with Eradicate, quite honestly, is its ability to strip certain skills that entire soul combinations revolve around, e.g. Life Giving Veil. If that were made a passive buff in the Chloromancer tree, all the problems would go away. Eradicate is the much-needed counter to the PvE-esque buff happy groups that run Shammicars, Tanks, Archons, Wardens, and Bards in a petty attempt to out-last any opposition. It's not strategic, intelligent, and should have never been encouraged. At least now a moronic Cleric will think twice before slapping on their 8 or so buffs and running into the fray.

    Sadly, if the general nerfing trend stays true, one of two things will happen. Either Eradicate will be pseudo-nerfed so that it works essentially the same, but with a minuscule drawback (think GoS), or it will be over-nerfed to stem the tide of tears from the terrible players in Rift. Here's hoping it's not the latter.

    Just an addendum: The only broken aspect of Pyromancers was Ground of Skill and it's ability to prevent all forms of CC. People complaining about high crits are just fools who ran into a Redball Pyro's face and thought they'd come out unmolested.
    I agree with you to a point. Although I do believe PvP should be team based and no 1 player should turn the tide of the battle, Unfortunately Trion has gone with the "WoW approach" and made it so that they will please the majority and not give 2 ****s if it works or not, the reason TRION is doing these stupid buffs/nerfs is because they are factoring player skill into how they balance. The game is bent around the community and in every MMO (except maybe eve but w/e) the majority of the community are idiotic bad players. Rogues were fine for open world PvP in 1.1 and did NOT need a dps boost in assassin, and yet they got it because stupid players cried "I can't run in there without stealth up and 2 shot the snb tank" marksman dps was lack luster, but ONLY by about 50-100 dps, so what did trion do? over buff so that the idiots could play the class with no skill. Bad players were complaining about a pyromancer that was killing players from the back lines.

    While instant cast cinderburst crit is stupid and should not be in the game even now they completely ignore that and nerf something that has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with pyromancer, they did this so that the pyromancer community of idiots could still kill players without thinking.

    1.3 I predict warriors will finally peak at OP or at least require no skill like the other souls so that trion can maintain the wow approach and make all content available to everyone and not the people that have skill.

    All in all by the end of TOR the entire MMO community will be a bunch of no skill players because of game dev's selling out to bad casual players.

    also. The casual community are not all bad players but the majority are. if you do not want to put in the time to learn a proper class or you re-roll every patch to whatever got over buffed then you have NO SKILL AT ALL. If anyone disagree's please give a valid reason why re-rolling to FotM every patch is not a clear sign of you not having any skill at all.

  10. #10
    Ascendant Stigas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magipants View Post
    Just an addendum: The only broken aspect of Pyromancers was Ground of Skill and it's ability to prevent all forms of CC. People complaining about high crits are just fools who ran into a Redball Pyro's face and thought they'd come out unmolested.
    That was my point really.

    Marksman damage and mobility are fine (and necessary).

    Eradicate is just a stupid, lazy attempt at filling a sh*tty root tree with a desirable ability that gets people to invest points in it.

    Eradicate should have a CD, but be wayyyy lower in the root. I suggested it switch with Fan Out, and adjust Fan Out to give combo points on the current target. Maybe that's a bad suggestion, but I feel that with 44 points into a tree, Eradicate isn't what you'd want. It provides no aid in the real problem Marksmen have --- Warriors. While the mobility is nice, with the CC changes essentially everyone is immune to snares/roots, so mobility loses its value to a certain extent.

    I disagree with making LGV passive. It should just not have a cooldown. I've always been of the mindset that monitoring buffs/debuffs was a great way to differentiate a skilled PvP'er from a mediocre one.

    Of course... if Eradicate remains as-is with no CD, it'd have to be passive, because Rogues will win every GCD war, even if they alternate Eradicates with a damaging shot//finisher.
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  11. #11
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    I can agree with dmv, BUT it seems as the devs ignore the cleric forums. There are a lot of important topics which are discussed in a more or less (hi, rogue qqer ) mannered and "normal" way, but the devs dont give any feedback or use the given input.

    That u can purge 3 core mechanics of a class is just stupid and at least 2 of them could been made passives since beta.

    Im anyway not rly a pvp player so the balance issues dont hurt me to much but it shouldnt be possible to take away a class mechanic with a damit purge, anyway i would prefer some more "new" ideas over the "make every setup able to do the same thing".

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmv View Post
    Seriously, Trion isn't making the game unbalanced. Yes, there are alot of marksmen, and yes eradicate is annoying, but Trion's come a LONG way from 1.0.
    If people keep having this knee-jerk reaction of "OMG THAT SOUL JUST KILLED ME!!!!1!!! NERF IT NOAW TRION OR IAMMA CANCEL MY SUB!!!!!" the game is just going to die out.

    Is the game close to balance? In my opinion yes.
    Are there classes that have the edge over others? In my opinion yes.
    Should people freak the **** out every time a soul counters theirs? Absolutely not.

    I'm just waiting for the thread that calls out all marksmen, pyros, and wardens as socialists trying to "push a single payer system down the throats of the american people."
    1.0:

    Warriors and Pyros are OP. Rogues suck. Clerics are indestructable.

    1.2:

    Rogues and Pyros are OP. Warriors suck. Clerics are indestructible.

    Exactly how are we in a better spot than 1.0 again?

  13. #13
    Plane Walker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lysander Salavone View Post
    1.0:

    Warriors and Pyros are OP. Rogues suck. Clerics are indestructable.

    1.2:

    Rogues and Pyros are OP. Warriors suck. Clerics are indestructible.

    Exactly how are we in a better spot than 1.0 again?
    You have to be kidding me. The nerf to the templar tree was drastic and severely affected any rank 5+ cleric. It is just nonsense that clerics in general are indestructible.

    Overall IMO the game is more balanced that it was, but frankly adding eradicate like they did was dumb. I am not sure what they possibly could have been thinking adding a spammable debuff with no cooldown that can quickly gut any class that depends on a buff for class mechanics.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ceol View Post
    You have to be kidding me. The nerf to the templar tree was drastic and severely affected any rank 5+ cleric. It is just nonsense that clerics in general are indestructible.

    Overall IMO the game is more balanced that it was, but frankly adding eradicate like they did was dumb. I am not sure what they possibly could have been thinking adding a spammable debuff with no cooldown that can quickly gut any class that depends on a buff for class mechanics.
    Stops P6 Wardens from spam-healing from the middle of a zerg quite nicely

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ceol View Post
    You have to be kidding me. The nerf to the templar tree was drastic and severely affected any rank 5+ cleric. It is just nonsense that clerics in general are indestructible.
    Oh yes, I feel so bad for those Rank 5+ Clerics. They're so fragile.

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