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Thread: The joy of Cookie Cutter class mechanics

  1. #1
    Soulwalker
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    Default The joy of Cookie Cutter class mechanics

    It's amazing to read all of the whinging posts about class balance without anyone realising they're paying for the benefit of being able to template and everyone using the same or similar templates which have been designed to do "everything" rather than a role in PVP.

    In my view, any cleric complaining that they can't adequately destroy other classes is stupid, because while they have DPS souls, ultimately clerics main focus is healing.

    In my view, any warrior complaining that they can't burn down other classes is stupid, because while they have DPS souls, ultimately warriors main focus is being a menace, CCing and acting as an anchor for people to focus attack from

    In my view, any rogue complaining that they damage less than mages and can't compete with a mage in true DPS (no longer true, thanks Trion) is stupid, because they don't understand rogues are there to work as the first strike, just before the tank hits, to stun, CC and disrupt healing, get behind the lines and cause disruptions to the support network due to their stealth and range

    In my view, any mage complaining that while they can put out huge DPS, they're easy to take down and their heal class is easily rebuked is stupid, because they don't understand mages are glass tanks who are there to doll out huge damage and be punished if they over extend and don't work well with their team mates.

    Ultimately, this was seen in Star Wars Galaxies where people either used buffs (doctor buffs) which ensured they almost ever died with Stimpacks. Or they added a bit of Combat Medic to keep themselves up so they could solo most the content, not require groups and not require raids. The way they dealt with that? They got rid of cookie cutter class mechanics.

    If you want that to happen here, keep complaining about the freedoms and problems this class system brings.

    If you don't, realise that while you can be of great utility by taking other roles, those roles have to work in harmony with the raid of 10-20 other players in order for you to function well in PVP. A tank being backed by good DPS, healers and CC will be a ****ing lethal force if they're playing their role as an anchor point and an intimidating force for those behind the lines.

    It's that simple, you can all complain that your roles won't allow you to play stupidly and as an individual and have success because some roles are better at individual play as others but realistically, play a role in the team and you'll have more success - rather than attempting to be The Be all and End all of DPS, CC or Healing.

  2. #2
    Prophet of Telara Artorous's Avatar
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    Wow... All I got from your post is "In other games X does A so should not be able to do B as well in this one!" Your views are wrong, if you want clerics to do nothing but heal then go play another game. Do some research on Clerics, Zealots to be more specific.

    Just because something does one thing in another game doesn't mean it has to do things in this one. Get over "Your views" as they aren't correct for this particular game.

  3. #3
    Soulwalker
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    You obviously can't read or comprehend anything.

    I know Clerics can do more than just heal, and I support them in doing it. I don't support them complaining that they can't damage as well as a mage or rogue class, I also don't support them in complaining that all they're expected to do is heal, when they have the best healset in the game.

  4. #4
    Prophet of Telara NatashaK's Avatar
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    I disagree that RIFT is radically different from other games. Clerics and heavy armor classes aren't bursty. They beat other classes by wearing them down. Saying Clerics should focus "on healing" obviously goes too far. But they should focus on their strengths which have much more to do with "survive and outlast" than killing someone in 3-4 gcds.

    Mages and rogues, like every other game, kill by chaining burst and cc. (Yes, there's usually a "death by 1000 cuts" spec which is some kind of DoT/snare combo instead of burst and hard CC.)

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cavalera View Post
    You obviously can't read or comprehend anything.

    I know Clerics can do more than just heal, and I support them in doing it. I don't support them complaining that they can't damage as well as a mage or rogue class, I also don't support them in complaining that all they're expected to do is heal, when they have the best healset in the game.
    It'd be nice if our healing was comparable to speccing just 31ish points into chloro.

    I'd be all for "primary healing" if 66 points into healing souls was better than what a mage can do with 31 points. But it's not.

    OP calling is OP.

  6. #6
    Rift Disciple
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    How exactly are Chloro's op? Cause frankly I'm not seeing it.
    Quote Originally Posted by phoenixfire82 View Post
    i spam the **** out of fulminate, in fact it's the only skill i need on my bar

    <3 u fulminate

  7. #7
    Ascendant Stigas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriza View Post
    How exactly are Chloro's op? Cause frankly I'm not seeing it.
    Don't mind him. Just another Cleric failing at 5-mans.

    If he raided at all, he'd know Clerics > Chloros in every aspect.
    Stigas - 50 Defiant Mage - Rank 5
    <PeeKay>
    US-Dayblind (PvP)

  8. #8
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    The way I see it.

    Warriors should be there to cause problems/protect healers/eat dmg/mana drain
    Rogues to kill cloth.
    Mages to blast everything but are weak in def.
    Cleric (as a cleric healer my self I would rather have to wear cloth and be less of a tank)
    have a warrior close by with guard on me getting rogues off me.

    I'v joined soooo MANY wfs where guardians are winning by lets say 100 points and we have no healers I join /y game over we get fang and we win. All cause of 1 player with heals.

    oh btw tactic = hot up, run into middle, tank them all, while dps kills everyone.


    also not a Cookie Cutter build ^^
    Last edited by May Contain Nuts; 05-20-2011 at 09:47 PM.

  9. #9
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    OP is a rogue troll, ignore him.

  10. #10
    Plane Walker TJ74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cavalera View Post
    It's amazing to read all of the whinging posts about class balance without anyone realising they're paying for the benefit of being able to template and everyone using the same or similar templates which have been designed to do "everything" rather than a role in PVP.
    If you want that to happen here, keep complaining about the freedoms and problems this class system brings.
    If you don't, realise that while you can be of great utility by taking other roles, those roles have to work in harmony with the raid of 10-20 other players in order for you to function well in PVP.
    It's that simple, you can all complain that your roles won't allow you to play stupidly and as an individual and have success because some roles are better at individual play as others but realistically, play a role in the team and you'll have more success - rather than attempting to be The Be all and End all of DPS, CC or Healing.
    on teh interwbzz???

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stigas View Post
    Don't mind him. Just another Cleric failing at 5-mans.

    If he raided at all, he'd know Clerics > Chloros in every aspect.
    Definitely not true. Clerics are more flexible, but I can definitely output a lot more healing with a little bit a timing.

  12. #12
    Prophet of Telara Artorous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cavalera View Post
    You obviously can't read or comprehend anything.

    I know Clerics can do more than just heal, and I support them in doing it. I don't support them complaining that they can't damage as well as a mage or rogue class, I also don't support them in complaining that all they're expected to do is heal, when they have the best healset in the game.
    Clerics have great DPS, Tank, and Healing specs
    Warriors have great DPS and Tank specs.
    Rogues have great DPS, Tank, and Support specs
    Mages have great DPS, Healing, and Support specs

    Why shouldn't everyone calling be as effective as another at doing something else? Again, just because some other games use the Warriors are Tanks, Mages/Rogues are DPS, and Clerics are Healers doesn't mean the same rules apply in Rift! If they would have made up some unique name for the callings then I bet your thoughts would be different.

  13. #13
    Shield of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artorous View Post
    Clerics have great DPS, Tank, and Healing specs
    Warriors have great DPS and Tank specs.
    Rogues have great DPS, Tank, and Support specs
    Mages have great DPS, Healing, and Support specs

    Why shouldn't everyone calling be as effective as another at doing something else? Again, just because some other games use the Warriors are Tanks, Mages/Rogues are DPS, and Clerics are Healers doesn't mean the same rules apply in Rift! If they would have made up some unique name for the callings then I bet your thoughts would be different.

    Basically because it defeats the purpose of making other characters to play certain roles if one class can do all roles. This is the main issue. All classes being able to do all roles, except warriors of course with healing. And yeah, Chloromancer healing can be better then Clerics, I know that as I have both Cleric and Mage and my Chloromancer healing can do Instances and do warfronts better then my cleric can whilst also dealing out a good amount of damage in the process.

    Same as Bards, their healing with damage output is better then Clerics. The only difference is there isn't good single target healing compared to Clerics. But when it comes to warfronts and instances, why bother so much when your AoE is pretty damn good.

    Traditionally, Clerics are not a healing class only. They are a mixture. Priests are healing. Clerics are completely different to Priests.

    To be honest, with the way you can setup your character with 3 soul tree combos, Bards should not be that good at healing and more better at buffs. Chloromancers should not be as good at healing as what they are now either.

    As it is, there are less proper healing clerics and more DPS clerics, leaving bards and chloros to dominate healing because they CAN.

    Just my 2 cents.

    I'm not against all classes doing everything or majority of things but yeah, some things need to be looked at to make classes more viable and not a one does all class.

    One way of looking at it again with healing is that bards can not only heal good but also buff. Same as Chloromancers, you can have archon as well and buff your team extremely well. Clerics dont have as good buffs as those 2 classes and their healing isn't what i would say superior to them.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valkorian View Post
    Same as Bards, their healing with damage output is better then Clerics.
    And, you validate the argument against cross server LFG.

    Tell me you're not on Lotham.

  15. #15
    Shield of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tranquility View Post
    And, you validate the argument against cross server LFG.

    Tell me you're not on Lotham.
    If cross server LFG needs to be done because there is a lack of people then by all means. But I would prefer it to be server only.

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