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Thread: Magic Vs. Physical Damage, part of the problem (kinda long)

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    Default Magic Vs. Physical Damage, part of the problem (kinda long)

    About me (since invariably this junk matters to some people as though who presents an idea affects its merit):
    I play a cleric. Generally caster specs, whether dps or heals. I've been playing since a few days after launch. I have full T2 gear and full R3/4 gear. Prior to 1.2 I used T2 gear in PvP, now I use R3/4 gear. I was one of the first 50s on my server (Carrion) and so have pretty much always been near the top of the heap in terms of gear.

    So what I've noticed is that all through leveling and gearing up the amount of damage I take from rogues, warriors, and melee clerics compared to my max health as remained relatively consistent plus or minus after patches. What I mean is that a physical damage dealer hits for XX% of my max health now and pretty much always did assuming roughly equal gear between us. This makes sense because as their stats go up, my armor rating goes up.

    Casters are in a totally different category. When I hit 50 I had ~4.5k health I think, and I still do +/-500 health depending on spec. I also had basically no magic resist except whatever bits I had from essences and/or buffs, this also hasn't changed. Yet spells do more damage than they used to. Even with valor changes this still basically holds true.

    I also notice it being a caster. When I first hit 50 my Sanction Heretic would hit for ~800-900 crits (I think, been a long time). Now it crits for 1200+.

    The problem is there is no guaranteed increase to our ability to survive magical damage like there is physical damage, but the magical damage keeps increasing as the gear gets better.

    Trion has kind of backed themselves in to a corner with this with the mechanics in place though. Specifically the fact that damage reduction and change to resist are attached to the same stat. Sure it's possible to stack fire resist and laugh at pyros but then an inquisitor, necro/lock, stormcaller, other non-fire damage dealing caster would just stomp all over you just the same. It's not possible to stack resists against magical damage in general.

    What I think they need to do is create a new stat. Something like Magic Protection, or whatever. Make this a sum total of ALL the resists you have to various elements and have it just be a flat damage reduction, no resist, against all magic damage. It doesn't need to use the same formula point to percent as the current stats do, but I think we need something that makes it so as gear gets better we take less magic damage.


    TLR for those who need it:

    We need a guaranteed increase in magic damage reduction as gear gets better similar to armor. Otherwise the "1 shot by a caster" stories are going to become more and more frequent as gear gets better. Magic damage done goes up, max health and magic defense remains roughly the same. This doesn't work.
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  2. #2
    Sword of Telara Ts117's Avatar
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    I agree. I have stated before that the damage mitigation between physical and magical damage is really the main issue in PvP, not so much the damage calculations.

    Our armor should have a magic resist stat that is applied in reverse order of armor's physical damage reduction, where mages get the most magic resist stat and warriors get the lowest resist stat, but still get some magical damage reduction.

    Also, physical attacks can be blocked, parried, or dodged fairly consistently but the chance of completely resisting a spell from another player of equal level is so miniscule as to be effectively zero.

    Personally I believe we should be able to block or dodge bolt spells the same as physical attacks.

  3. #3
    dmv
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    I've got no issue with a lack of a magic mitigation stat, what I do have an issue with is AP and SP scaling very differently. AP- .1 dps, sp .2 dps. And yet very few items are actually itemized properly, AP and SP are rewarded at the same rate on equipment.
    Retired due to lack of PVP content and boring/repetitive game mechanics.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dmv View Post
    I've got no issue with a lack of a magic mitigation stat, what I do have an issue with is AP and SP scaling very differently. AP- .1 dps, sp .2 dps. And yet very few items are actually itemized properly, AP and SP are rewarded at the same rate on equipment.
    Except your weapons damage actually plays a part in your damage ours doesnt. Our weapons could give us 3k dps and 600 sp, unless Im hugely mistaken that dps wont do a damn thing for us, cause were not smacking you with it.. Although for a cleric might be different.
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    Prophet of Telara Skryth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriza View Post
    Except your weapons damage actually plays a part in your damage ours doesnt. Our weapons could give us 3k dps and 600 sp, unless Im hugely mistaken that dps wont do a damn thing for us, cause were not smacking you with it.. Although for a cleric might be different.
    A t1 one-handed SP weapon has ~180 SP on it. That translates to ~36 DPS. That's more than most 2-handers have.
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    Ascendant Vaine's Avatar
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    TLDR;
    Magic mitigation in a form other than planar sourcestones are needed in pvp.


    We've known this for a while now. We've told this to trion for a while now. We've even told them that the redonkuous red ball should only give 1/2 spell power contribution, as this is where 1/2 the qq's come from.

    (Melee get about 25% damage upgrade from redball, spellcasters get about 50% from red balls)
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  7. #7
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    I somewhat agree.

    But the bigger issue is the aoe damage, especially magic damage, which should not be as high as it is.

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    ...

    Is this actually a post by a cleric complaining that he doesn't have enough survivability?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lysander Salavone View Post
    ...

    Is this actually a post by a cleric complaining that he doesn't have enough survivability?
    No. This is a post by a cleric saying my magic damage is constantly increasing and it's taking me less and less GCDs to drop people. Meanwhile it's taking physical damage dealers roughly the same number of GCDs to drop me, if they can at all.

    The problem is that if you extrapolate current itemization trends in to the future you end up with me (and other magic damage dealers) one shotting people without the red ball of death and physical damage dealers still doing roughly the same percentage of a players total health. This trend already exists between a pair fresh green/blue geared 50s Vs. a pair of T2+ geared 50s.

    Edit: Considering I am basically advocating a nerf to my own damage in PvP I have no idea how you thought I was complaining.
    Last edited by Unspecified; 05-14-2011 at 10:43 PM.
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  10. #10
    dmv
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriza View Post
    Except your weapons damage actually plays a part in your damage ours doesnt. Our weapons could give us 3k dps and 600 sp, unless Im hugely mistaken that dps wont do a damn thing for us, cause were not smacking you with it.. Although for a cleric might be different.
    I'd sympathize if your weapons didnt give you hundreds of SP, our weapons do not have 300+ ap on them.
    Retired due to lack of PVP content and boring/repetitive game mechanics.

  11. #11
    Sword of Telara Mr Malingers's Avatar
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    A simple rework as to how Spell Resists function would be all thats necessary.
    Perhaps a clustering of them like they did with CC.

    Elemental) Air, Water, Earth and Fire.

    Spiritual) Life and Death.

    Items and whatnot would give 10 Elemental resist or whatever so you could stack resists to multiple resists but not literally all.
    There are already in game talents that specify "Elemental Damage" so there has to be some sort of grouping already in place.
    Maybe he just wanted to steal our wire cutters. You ever think of that?

  12. #12
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    Agreed and I've noticed this myself only a few weeks after release. 1.1 screwed things over even more by increasing armor on cloth and increasing spell damage at the same time. Hence there's a lot of physical protection, but the only way to improve survivability against magic is by increasing your HPs, which of course has an effect towards physical damage as well.

    And well I was critted for 3.5k by Sanction Heretic today, which is INSTANT CAST WITH A DOT COMPONENT BY A FRICKEN CLERIC!

  13. #13
    Soulwalker
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    Supporting this thread.

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