+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 33

Thread: The "I WIN" Tree

  1. #1
    Soulwalker
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    13

    Default The "I WIN" Tree

    The following is just my opinion.

    Many builds in games such as this one become the "only" acceptable build if you want to be a real PvPer, Raider or whatever.

    While the game looks like it might have more options with building a character with multiple trees, over time the discovery of what works the best in terms of powergaming is gradually revealed and those who wish to compete or become accepted by certain guilds will need to be boxed into a certain build within their class.

    What steps is Trion / RIFT taking to make sure that almost all builds within reason are viable options? Will a character dumping all of their points into a single tree be just as viable as one who dumps their points into 2 or 3 trees and vice versa?

    In the end, will we be able to build our characters however we want and still be desired by pvp / raiding guilds and the like or will there be "I WIN" combos in the trees to where the nerf bat is brought out to even the score and we go through endless cycles of the flavor of the month program?

  2. #2
    Sword of Telara souper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    831

    Default

    The issue of balance and min-maxing has been brought up several times in the past. In the end, there will always be an optimal build for that one particular situation you are in. It just happens.

    That said, you'll be able to make a few preset builds that you can swap between. Have a PvP set ready, a Raid set, etc. That's the benefit to class swapping. Your current build may be useless in PvP but you will never be useless since you can just load up a few different souls. Any other balance concerns, like 1 tree vs. 3, are really just universal to the MMORPG genre in general I'd say.

  3. #3
    Shadowlander Chronus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Giant hampster-wheel
    Posts
    25

    Default

    I wouldn't worry as much about this scenario in rift. Inevitably people are going to find specs that work to the advantage of their soul(s), that's just the nature of humanity. Even so a large portion of that is preference.

    I say this wont be a huge issue based on some thinking I have done about this myself. In most MMOs classes are very rigid in their ability to do things, we call this their "role". Through interviews and Dev talks it has become clear that they want souls to be very specialized, much like classes in other games. However with 32 of these classes and each having a unique way they fulfill their role, I don't see there being the same dependency on certain specs like in other games. In other games you had a single role and with that it is very easy to look at and figure out what the BEST way to fill that role is, its very one-dimensional.

    When you're dealing with 8 classes per calling with multiple roles per calling you have immense potential for hybridization which to an extent removes the whole "one spec to rule them all". Sure there will be people who claim that their combination of souls and spec is ideal for a specific role, that's unavoidable. To me it feels like with 32 different souls "ideal spec" is going to be another word for "preference".

  4. #4
    General of Telara aahingenuity's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    957

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Incarnum View Post
    The following is just my opinion.

    Many builds in games such as this one become the "only" acceptable build if you want to be a real PvPer, Raider or whatever.

    While the game looks like it might have more options with building a character with multiple trees, over time the discovery of what works the best in terms of powergaming is gradually revealed and those who wish to compete or become accepted by certain guilds will need to be boxed into a certain build within their class.

    What steps is Trion / RIFT taking to make sure that almost all builds within reason are viable options? Will a character dumping all of their points into a single tree be just as viable as one who dumps their points into 2 or 3 trees and vice versa?

    In the end, will we be able to build our characters however we want and still be desired by pvp / raiding guilds and the like or will there be "I WIN" combos in the trees to where the nerf bat is brought out to even the score and we go through endless cycles of the flavor of the month program?
    I understand that some people worry about this but it certainly isn't anything to worry about. From what I've seen there isn't a bad or really great combination of classes but I'm sure it will be that way when you are choosing the branches of your class.

    I wouldn't like to join a guild with certain expectations personally, especially for builds. Gear, maybe, but never builds, it's about the person and what they are comfortable with.
    Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.

  5. #5
    Rift Chaser Arrocken's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    315

    Default

    Truthfully, I am kind of expecting that it'll be a bunch of flavor of the months, like shadowbane would have, since it had a similar class system. Which wasn't that bad of a thing, since it gave fresh gameplay all the time. But I hope it's not like that, I can't wait to find out.

  6. #6
    Plane Walker Perros's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    California
    Posts
    367

    Default

    There will be fights that require burst dps, there will be fights that require high dps over a long duration, there will be melee fights, there will ranged fights, there will be fights that require good innate power regeneration, there will be fights that will require kiting, there will be fights requiring extreme cc, there will be fights that require excellent defense. If there is one soul that can do all that, then indeed there is a "I win" soul. If the developers know what they are doing, different souls will excel at these jobs and they will also design encounters that will require flexibility.

    Usually developers are constrained in the design of encounters and have to avoid benching half a raid since their specific abilities are not beneficial (melee for example in a heavy ae fight). Now they can expect that player will adapt because they have given the tools to adapt.

  7. #7
    Champion of Telara g0kuenuan's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Romania
    Posts
    1,216

    Default

    one word: NERF.
    once a class is deemed OP and superior to other builds it is so NERFED that is not anymore then the next one is NERFED... and so on
    http://forums.riftgame.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=1282&dateline=1279040  725

  8. #8
    Rift Chaser Ozon's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    329

    Default

    It most likely will be an "I WIN" build for common fights, but i also think there will be different builds for PvP and for Boss fights that requires AoE Damage or even AoE Healing or some kind of ability / buff that is required for the fight. I personally want to use more than one build in both PvE and in PvP and have to switch depending on the fight.

  9. #9
    Rift Disciple Adjana's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Mainz, Germany
    Posts
    125

    Default

    I also don't think that there will be one build that is best for all pvp or raid situations. In pvp one build could be best again class (or group) A, and another one is better against class B. Without knowing who your enemy is you shouldn't know which build is the best.

    Raids should need different builds of a calling for one bossfight. Some clerics specialized on direct single heals, others on hots and others on groupheal. Some DDs should have to add some utility while others go full dps. Different tanking builds for adds or boss phases, and so on. So there will be spots for different builds and not one special raid build.

  10. #10
    Ascendant Elladar's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Graveyard
    Posts
    2,675

    Default

    I cant really understand why people got problew with "I WIN" speck... In the hands of a skilled player even the worst class will be come efficient. Just because there are 10 REALLY good warlocks on the server, out of 300 DOES NOT MEAN that warlocks are OP.. It just means that YOU were unlucky enough to run into one of these Uber Players. In WoW I have seen a Rogue beat two warriors at same time, I also seen a Paladin do the same thing. But guess what that paladin defeated rogue, and me [Warlock], who couldnt even kill one warrior managed to rip that Paladin a new one... Does that make Warlocks OP? No it just shows that I have more understanding of how to play vs paladin rather than vs warrior. And now I come to a grand conclusion. ARE all people in the world the same? You look me in the eye and tell me that that 100 years old japanece man [who is mostprobably one of the top martialartists in the whole of Japan] can not beat that bodybuilder over there! Then I will say: "Dude ur crazy! That old man will not move, and the gorilla guy will drop down half dead!"
    I don't need to "Get a life."! I'm a Gamer! I have loads of Lifes! - - - Necromancy - happiness is an army of unstoppable, loyal, killing machines.

  11. #11
    Shield of Telara Caracarn's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Austria
    Posts
    691

    Default

    it is purest speculation of course, but I feel inclined to bet that for raiding min-maxing will still be thet way to go. Usually a class has one or two things they are very good at - and to do just that will be what raiding is about. Solo or group content a jack-of-all-trades spec will often be more useful due to higher versatility. But in raids it is all about do what you are best at and lef the rest - well - to the rest.
    ELDER of TELARA

    Proud member of NEMESIS

  12. #12
    Rift Disciple Wolflen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    151

    Default

    Well just like the gear talk that we have been hashing out about pvp and pve gear.Why should we have talents as say necessarily so pointed to being better for pvp why not look at all talents have something better to offer because they do something that another talent doesnt do.Try to leave the builds with variety in our minds at least instead of thinking there will be a always complete set for raiding or pvp.Rift I think will give us very many options without have to worry about a so called pvp talents.I would like to think they will base it off the raid situations instead.

  13. #13
    Plane Walker WarpCode's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    VanWA
    Posts
    431

    Default

    The Ranger will be the I Win build.. They are just going to be that awesome.
    Warp

  14. #14
    Telaran Acebreus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    TN
    Posts
    92

    Default

    I think that the dynamic nature of rift will more or less do away with the "I Win" builds. I think people will find several spec's that will capable of all being the "I win" spec. However there will definitely be people and sites that will proclaim their spec as the best and many people will copy them and be successful, but it won't negate the other specs that work just as well unless your guild or raid leader says so.

    Btw I will have the "I win" spec for my future Elemenalist-warlock-enchanter build! j/k
    http://forums.riftgame.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=3250&dateline=1279205  221
    <PAIN >

  15. #15
    Soulwalker
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    11

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Caracarn View Post
    it is purest speculation of course, but I feel inclined to bet that for raiding min-maxing will still be thet way to go. Usually a class has one or two things they are very good at - and to do just that will be what raiding is about. Solo or group content a jack-of-all-trades spec will often be more useful due to higher versatility. But in raids it is all about do what you are best at and lef the rest - well - to the rest.
    I share this point of view. Until now, in all major MMORPGs Min/Maxing was the way to go in raids.

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts