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Thread: Tank PoV on PuGs

  1. #1
    Shadowlander
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    Default Tank PoV on PuGs

    Here is a perspective from a Tank.

    People Should have 3 dedicated roles for dungeons. Usually they have 1 dungeon role and their "My Solo role can do that." Getting 3 or even 4 roles by 50 should not be a problem and also having all the properly trained levels of all skills.

    AOE DPS
    Single Target DPS
    Utility/Tank/Heal

    Role> Gear for all boss fights.


    General Thoughts:

    Well Geared Chloros with good skillz can solo heal very well making T1/2 content much easier. Have a spec with Consume and one with Poly. if you go storm Knock-backs on mobs annoy your tank especially in Boss fights


    Clerics shine in boss fights, for trash I wish that all Clerics had a Really Good AOE DPS spec. Cleanse is something that can save the day.


    Wars tend to have big numbers syndrome. Wars need to learn fight mechanics and not fail rotations due to said fight mechanics, otherwise there DPs turns to crap. Just because you parse omg leet on a Dummy doesn't mean that translates well into a dungeon environment. MOBILITY is paramount for a DPS War, that said knowing how to maintain DPS while moving is key to being a valued member of a group.
    Also a note Just because you are pulling HATE does not mean your DPS is top usually it is because your spec includes some form of hate generation or you use a skill with innate hate generation, or you go so far as to use taunt. Please If you want to tank then by all means put together your own party.


    Rogues tend to have big numbers syndrome also, however a Good rogue will spec properly and keep sustained DPS. Depending on build the same as a War tends to go for the rogue. Learn the mechanics keep up rotations.
    Rogues please Have a Good Brd Spec, just because you have one doesn't mean you will be banned from doing DPS. However in some fights Brds are really nice to have.
    Also SAP its good to have

    Spec Specifics:

    Archon is pretty craptastic outside of a raid environment. Both full spec and Sub Spec.
    This is from parsed run and I have yet to run an instance where Archon or /archon beat out /lock. Utility is nice but in terms of T1/T2 a lot of it is not needed and is there by sacrificing from something else.

    all souls with Pets
    Watch your Pet, don't pull hate its a silly mistake but something which seems to happen often. In a T2 this can easily mean a wipe especially if say a healer or tank is not ready.

    Cleric Hots are nice but the real place where Clerics> Chloros is the single target big heals. Clerics roflstomp spike damage, they eat that **** for breakfast and crap out boss kills. so to recap HoTs are nice but you want some decent burst healing too.

    for DPS some kind of power regen is good to have, many a time DPS starts to fail when power goes dry look at your build to see how to work some in or how to optimize your rotation so as to be able to sustain DPS in say a 10 min long fight.( some instance 20min, gregori)

    Although as a DPS you may rarely get hit with a stun, sometimes you do and having some sort of way to breakout can save your life.


    I am sure there is much more but I'll leave u guys to add.

  2. #2
    Plane Walker Squeegee's Avatar
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    While I agree with what you are saying, in my experience, the tank is the worst place to pick up a pug. Any monkey can heal a good tank. Any monkey can pew pew the boss. But if the tank can't manage his defensive skills and let the group know when he will be most vulnerable, then the group will fail.

    But if you have a really good tank, he can carry a group through most fights, unless it is a fight like Caelia.
    Shut your pie hole!!!

  3. #3
    Prophet of Telara
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    My mage at 50 has all 4 roles dedicated to pve. necro/lock my dps spec which helps with self healing something which for some fights is a requirement when healers aren't all that good. Chloro/lock my support healing spec which when grouped with a 51 archon won't screw them over with my unstackable debuff/s. Consumption is not needed in a chloro build and sacrifices too much healing potential taking it T2 bosses that required it have been fixed now. SC/ele this is an AoE dps spec very high numbers and **** survivability and mana return, I use this only in groups that are geared right for the content and know how to play the instance. Last role is 51 Archon with some lock and pyro, it's a buff spec "not dps" which in some T2 has helped down bosses where there's a pure healer and chloro/lock. Think warlord buffs.

    You have problems with pets pulling aggro from your tanking? you need to learn to identify which pets are the tanking ones and ask the mage/ranger to switch to the non tanking one.






  4. #4
    Champion of Telara
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    I know of players that only have one role. /boggle.

    4 even 5 is not enough for me.

    I have all 4........2 tank specs, 1DPS spec and 1 misc that I switch around alot but is usually my solo/rifting/doing dailies quests.

    I could easily have 4 tank and 3 DPS specs if they let me.

  5. #5
    Plane Walker Squeegee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Detill5869 View Post
    My mage at 50 has all 4 roles dedicated to pve. necro/lock my dps spec which helps with self healing something which for some fights is a requirement when healers aren't all that good. Chloro/lock my support healing spec which when grouped with a 51 archon won't screw them over with my unstackable debuff/s. Consumption is not needed in a chloro build and sacrifices too much healing potential taking it T2 bosses that required it have been fixed now. SC/ele this is an AoE dps spec very high numbers and **** survivability and mana return, I use this only in groups that are geared right for the content and know how to play the instance. Last role is 51 Archon with some lock and pyro, it's a buff spec "not dps" which in some T2 has helped down bosses where there's a pure healer and chloro/lock. Think warlord buffs.

    You have problems with pets pulling aggro from your tanking? you need to learn to identify which pets are the tanking ones and ask the mage/ranger to switch to the non tanking one.
    This is similar to me, but I do have a pyro spec. Chloro/lock/necro is my solo open world spec, but it's still useful in dungeons, when I need just a little healing and some dps. Then I also have Chloro/lock for main healing. And of course SC/Ele for trash.

    I have used my pyro build in PvE, mainly Renthar, I will off tank him, and the last boss in LH so he doesn't knock me back.

    I think any mage worth a damn has some form of these, although where I have chloro/necro/lock, they usually have archon.
    Shut your pie hole!!!

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrWadsworth View Post
    Rogues please Have a Good Brd Spec, just because you have one doesn't mean you will be banned from doing DPS. However in some fights Brds are really nice to have.
    Also SAP its good to have
    I will never Bard for you (or anyone else). That said, I will probably never group with you either, because my primary "dungeon role" is also a tank. Throw in the Melee and Ranged roles and I'm all full up for my "dungeon roles" allotment.

  7. #7
    Plane Walker Uiin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Detill5869 View Post
    .
    Wow we have exactly the same setup, being on a PvP server it can be a pain though so a 5th role will be much appricaited. To the OP I think you need at most 2 dungeon specs for optimisation; one for primary role and one for DPS or support, because while I do have all dungeon running specs I have rather slow solo play and the only truly useful thing I can do in PvP is heal as Chloro which isn't ideal due to the focus of my build - but I still dps sometimes. I can get the frustration though, I was in an expert where a rogue had only one role at 50 and my guildie had a mage who didn't know you could swap roles or get new souls!

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucubration View Post
    I will never Bard for you (or anyone else). That said, I will probably never group with you either, because my primary "dungeon role" is also a tank. Throw in the Melee and Ranged roles and I'm all full up for my "dungeon roles" allotment.
    Hmm so you never have played with another Rogue and wished they had Brd spec?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Detill5869 View Post
    My mage at 50 has all 4 roles dedicated to pve. necro/lock my dps spec which helps with self healing something which for some fights is a requirement when healers aren't all that good. Chloro/lock my support healing spec which when grouped with a 51 archon won't screw them over with my unstackable debuff/s. Consumption is not needed in a chloro build and sacrifices too much healing potential taking it T2 bosses that required it have been fixed now. SC/ele this is an AoE dps spec very high numbers and **** survivability and mana return, I use this only in groups that are geared right for the content and know how to play the instance. Last role is 51 Archon with some lock and pyro, it's a buff spec "not dps" which in some T2 has helped down bosses where there's a pure healer and chloro/lock. Think warlord buffs.

    You have problems with pets pulling aggro from your tanking? you need to learn to identify which pets are the tanking ones and ask the mage/ranger to switch to the non tanking one.
    I miss spoke on the pet thing meant getting aggro as in Adds etc. I would notice if a mage was using the lava golem pet.

    As for consumption I dont mean as a Chloro, I simply meant a spec which would have it. For example Necro/lock, Heck some mages look at me dumb founded on a Warden Fal fight whenI say u need to get rid of the shield, I usually have Mages go DPS for that fight and cleric/ brd heal it.

    As for Archon while in a raid environment they may rock, I have yet to see an archon specced mage put up decent number in any department to make me say damn I really would like to run with that Archon again. Maybe they are doing it wrong but I am not impressed by the unneeded Buffs. Please if there is another side to archon enlighten me.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucubration View Post
    ...my primary "dungeon role" is also a tank.
    lulz

    Not for long.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrWadsworth View Post
    Hmm so you never have played with another Rogue and wished they had Brd spec?
    I said I would never Bard. Sure, if you're not going to tank, suck it up and use that role for a Bard spec so you're not just a 1-trick pony. But honestly, I've never seen the need for a Bard when you've got a Chloro healer in the group (for Living Energy and splash group heals). The other buffs are... nice? But far from needed in any 5-man. I'd rather have another solid DPS at that point.
    Last edited by Lucubration; 05-05-2011 at 08:52 AM.

  12. #12
    Prophet of Telara
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    This is where the PUG system will get interesting since many people's DPS specs completely lack utility, any defense, or any range.

    I know my DPS builds have some sweet buffs and CC abilities mixed in with high sustained DPS. I know that Rogues can have a ton of buffs as well as sap, Warriors also can have a lot of buffs as well as interrupts and healing debuffs.

    That being said, many builds have sporadic burst damage with terrible sustained DPS, no utility, and no defenses...which means they blow their CDs at the start of the fight, have awesome DPS for ~10 seconds, then promptly die.

    I have a feeling people are going to join with the expectation that you'll have one orange name, one blue name, and three yellow names...except if they are all three melee builds with no utility and none of them have any offhealing or support abilities...you're hosed.

  13. #13
    Shadowlander
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucubration View Post
    I said I would never Bard. Sure, if you're not going to tank, suck it up and use that role for a Bard spec so you're not just a 1-trick pony. But honestly, I've never seen the need for a Bard when you've got a Chloro healer in the group (for Living Energy and splash group heals). The other buffs are... nice? But far from needed in any 5-man. I'd rather have another solid DPS at that point.
    Well one fight off top of my head is RD Warden Fal, Cleric can LoS the entire ordeal while a chloro runs the risk of gettign smacked, or if they DPS off the bats they can run out of bats.

    Have you done many t2? I ask simply because versatility is something you should embrace when running T2 content.

    A brd can dps bats and Fal and heal and if they die its not a cluster ****, of course it can be argued running the same Brd as an AOE DPS so he could take out bats is doable too. However That is only 1 fight and When you consider the mutability of a PuG situation I see no solid arguement for not Having every role.

    Hell I would even love the rogues to run a 4th tank role For specific fights and let me switch to DPS because at the end of the day it all comes down to

    If the Boss doesn't drop, then the gear doesn't drop.

    So to reiterate 3 roles for dungeon.
    ME (as a tank)
    2 tank specs varies for the fights
    1 DPS spec (when there is actually a time I am not the only viable tank)
    1 Solo spec ( I use this for PvP also and unless I run against an organized team I do well)

    I also run around with 2 bags worth of Gear at all Time. Dps gear, Tank gear, various trinkets and Foci.

    I would love to see other PuG members run as well Geared and prepared as I.
    So let me step that up.
    3 dungeon roles minimum 2 sets of gears 2 Foci.

    While These things are not impossible to accomplish good luck finding a PuG where everyone has the above.

    Thus it is not too much to ask that every Person have a proper spec for at least 3 situations while dungeon running. When 5th role comes out I will be one of the first dropping 100 plat or w/e amount to purchase said role and Setting up a new VK spec or variation there of.

    I am not sitting here tell people to do what I myself am unwilling to do. Lead by example and all that.

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