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Thread: Do the changes make PvP Chloro healer no longer viable? If so, is that intended?

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    Champion of Telara
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    Default Do the changes make PvP Chloro healer no longer viable? If so, is that intended?

    Since LGV will be subject to being dispelled, and LGV having a cooldown, it appears to me that for much of the battle, Chloros will no longer be able to heal. Is that correct? Is that intended?
    Last edited by Brad1959; 05-04-2011 at 07:10 AM.
    I am a lawyer in real life, but I try to roleplay an honorable character ;)

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    Soulwalker Furrydog's Avatar
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    Isn't LGV already dispellable?

    Also, I feel that Chloro's can't PvP heal too well because of the fact that they can't heal themselves as well as a Cleric can. I seriously have problems doing ANYTHING in PvP because I'm always target numero uno and have almost no way to keep myself alive.

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    It is yes but the buff shear their giving MM is far beyond anything thats currently on live, any class that relies on buffs/hots ie chloro, just, warden etc will be unplayable against a few MM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Furrydog View Post
    Isn't LGV already dispellable?

    Also, I feel that Chloro's can't PvP heal too well because of the fact that they can't heal themselves as well as a Cleric can. I seriously have problems doing ANYTHING in PvP because I'm always target numero uno and have almost no way to keep myself alive.
    Clerics don't keep themselves alive by healing, but by damage mitigation. Post patch both clerics and chloros will be more equalised in that account aka the need for ranks and PvP armor will be in high demand.

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    Ascendant TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xasapis View Post
    Clerics don't keep themselves alive by healing, but by damage mitigation. Post patch both clerics and chloros will be more equalised in that account aka the need for ranks and PvP armor will be in high demand.
    That may be, but clerics will still be viable healers in WFs. Chloros will dry up, which means warlock/chloro builds are also going to lose effectiveness. Which means more pyros.
    Red ball + fulminate + really craptacular dom/pyro spec trying to hard cast transmog and pray your spell lands before some squirrel punching moron eats your controlled opp proc = +1 board warrior keeping mages from being realistically balanced in PVE or PVP. 1.0-1.2's best combo in the game. RIP FOTM Pyro rollers

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    Plane Touched Nibbler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Furrydog View Post
    Isn't LGV already dispellable?

    Also, I feel that Chloro's can't PvP heal too well because of the fact that they can't heal themselves as well as a Cleric can. I seriously have problems doing ANYTHING in PvP because I'm always target numero uno and have almost no way to keep myself alive.
    I don't see why you're a healer in PVP as a mage.

    This game confuses me, hopefully ppl realise it too, but if you think on PVP + Mage = Healing in an MMO...
    I'm not saying you can't, hell I don't care what you do, but it's just weird you're playing a mage healer in PvP.

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    Ascendant TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nibbler View Post
    I don't see why you're a healer in PVP as a mage.

    This game confuses me, hopefully ppl realise it too, but if you think on PVP + Mage = Healing in an MMO...
    I'm not saying you can't, hell I don't care what you do, but it's just weird you're playing a mage healer in PvP.
    It's wierd being a mage healer period. That was the joy of rift, it mixed things up a little. Every patch keeps pushing us further and further away from that though, at least in pvp.
    Red ball + fulminate + really craptacular dom/pyro spec trying to hard cast transmog and pray your spell lands before some squirrel punching moron eats your controlled opp proc = +1 board warrior keeping mages from being realistically balanced in PVE or PVP. 1.0-1.2's best combo in the game. RIP FOTM Pyro rollers

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    That may be, but clerics will still be viable healers in WFs. Chloros will dry up, which means warlock/chloro builds are also going to lose effectiveness. Which means more pyros.
    I don't think they'll dry up, they are already hardly any chloros to begin with. The thing is that the damage mitigation made a thankless and badly rewarded job tolerable. This is now taken from clerics (not in rank 6) away as well. The difference is that it's easier to fallback to a dps spec as a mage than as a cleric atm and feel somewhat effective. We'll see how things progress of course.

    My estimate is that the amount of chloros will not change. Whoever is healing right now is doing it because he likes it, not because is easy or rewarding. On the other hand, the frustration of fragility will drive many healing clerics away from healing, thus my prediction about the numbers of healing clerics and mages equalise eventually.
    Last edited by Xasapis; 05-05-2011 at 03:00 AM.

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    Ascendant TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xasapis View Post
    I don't think they'll dry up, they are already hardly any chloros to begin with. The thing is that the damage mitigation made a thankless and badly rewarded job tolerable. This is now taken from clerics (not in rank 6) away as well. The difference is that it's easier to fallback to a dps spec as a mage than as a cleric atm and feel somewhat effective. We'll see how things progress of course.

    My estimate is that the amount of chloros will not change. Whoever is healing right now is doing it because he likes it, not because is easy or rewarding. On the other hand, the frustration of fragility will drive may healing clerics away from healing, thus my prediction about the numbers of healing clerics and mages equalise eventually.
    Most chloros in WF's are actually necro, warlock, or necro warlock specs with roughly 19 points in chloro. It was one of our better "not a pyro" specs. 1.2 is effectively gimping all of our non pyro specs, and leaving pyros for MM fodder.
    Red ball + fulminate + really craptacular dom/pyro spec trying to hard cast transmog and pray your spell lands before some squirrel punching moron eats your controlled opp proc = +1 board warrior keeping mages from being realistically balanced in PVE or PVP. 1.0-1.2's best combo in the game. RIP FOTM Pyro rollers

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    Plane Touched Nibbler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    Most chloros in WF's are actually necro, warlock, or necro warlock specs with roughly 19 points in chloro. It was one of our better "not a pyro" specs. 1.2 is effectively gimping all of our non pyro specs, and leaving pyros for MM fodder.
    Mages are only fodder to good rogues.

    I remember back at lvl 20 as a rogue I only needed 2 skills to be top of the ranks in WF's xD.
    Now I need to do a massive amount of precision, timing and skill using to get a good ratio.
    Rogue is probably one of the most difficult classes endgame to master tbh.

    Well it's obvious seeing who's dominant in the WF's now. Even noobs who FOTM for pyro get lucky.

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    Ascendant TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nibbler View Post
    Mages are only fodder to good rogues.

    I remember back at lvl 20 as a rogue I only needed 2 skills to be top of the ranks in WF's xD.
    Now I need to do a massive amount of precision, timing and skill using to get a good ratio.
    Rogue is probably one of the most difficult classes endgame to master tbh.

    Well it's obvious seeing who's dominant in the WF's now. Even noobs who FOTM for pyro get lucky.
    I dunno, I find FOTM pyros to be laughably easy to kill. They've bought into the hype that GoS is god mode and they cling to that thing like an ugly green life preserver. After 1.2, I suspect their KD ratio will get so bad that they go back to their other classes, or reroll entirely.
    Red ball + fulminate + really craptacular dom/pyro spec trying to hard cast transmog and pray your spell lands before some squirrel punching moron eats your controlled opp proc = +1 board warrior keeping mages from being realistically balanced in PVE or PVP. 1.0-1.2's best combo in the game. RIP FOTM Pyro rollers

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    Well, healing is not easy even now, when you got the opposing team MM keep up practically indefinitely the 50% healing reduction debuff. Imagine what another one will do mass buff removing the crowd. Justicar indirect healing will be hit as hard as chloro.

    I don't think that soul defining abilities should be removable. In terms of the chloromancer, if they make the LGV purgable, they should also make it insta-cast and out of GCD.

    I'm still at a loss on how a Justicar tank will be able to function as an actual tank in PvP, forgetting for a second the indirect healing provided.
    Last edited by Xasapis; 05-05-2011 at 03:21 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    I dunno, I find FOTM pyros to be laughably easy to kill. They've bought into the hype that GoS is god mode and they cling to that thing like an ugly green life preserver. After 1.2, I suspect their KD ratio will get so bad that they go back to their other classes, or reroll entirely.
    Only bad mages will, and I hope they will, I rather get killed by a good mage than a lucky FOTM one ;)

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    Soulwalker Zaldaris's Avatar
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    rofl people in WF's purge just about as much as they cleanse your general populace isnt going to be purging you, however against a well formed intelligent premade you might be getting purged, but it wont matter because most premades focus down healers anyway
    they say ignorance is bliss, if that is the case, why aren't most people happy?

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    Shield of Telara Riftspike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nibbler View Post
    Mages are only fodder to good rogues.

    I remember back at lvl 20 as a rogue I only needed 2 skills to be top of the ranks in WF's xD.
    Now I need to do a massive amount of precision, timing and skill using to get a good ratio.
    Rogue is probably one of the most difficult classes endgame to master tbh.

    Well it's obvious seeing who's dominant in the WF's now. Even noobs who FOTM for pyro get lucky.
    My main is a rogue, and I agree. Post 1.2 this won't be the case. Have you seen the buffs they are adding to MM.

    Master Archer: Now scales up in damage with the number of points spent in Marksman.
    * Sniper Training: Now gives a 7-21% bonus.
    * Deaden - New Ability: Blasts the enemy, interrupting casting and silencing them for 5 seconds with a successful interrupt. Not affected by global cooldown. Available with 24 points spent in Marksman.
    * Pedestals: Leaving a pedestal now applies a 15 second buff of the Pedestal's bonus, which will wear off unless you re-enter.

    MARKSMAN
    * Due to the below changes, characters with soul points spent in Marksman will receive a free soul point respec.
    * Fire and Forget: Removed.
    * Eradicate - New Ability: Available after spending 44 points in Marksman. Removes up to 2 buffs from the enemy target.
    * Close Quarters Combat: Now a 1 point passive ability rather than an activated one. Now available as a 6th tier branch ability.
    * Bull's Eye: Now available as a 5th tier branch ability.
    * Crossfire: Available after spending 26 points in Marksman.
    * Sniper Training: Revised. Now increases the damage of Empowered Shot and Deadeye Shot by 5-15%.
    * Controlled Fire: Removed.
    * Improved Hit and Run: New ability available after spending 38 points in Marksman. Allows the execution of ranged attacks while moving; causes Empowered Shot and Deadeye Shot to become instant cast abilities, removes cooldown on Empowered Shot, and reduces the Energy cost of all Marksman abilities by 50%. Shares a cooldown with Hit and Run.
    * Hit and Run: No longer causes stealth to break when activated.
    * Rapid Extraction: Revised - it now reduces the cooldown of On the Double, Hit and Run, Improved Hit and Run, Bull's Eye, and Retreat by 15-30%.
    * Strafe: Now deals an additional 20% damage if you are standing on your Pedestal.
    * Rapid Fire Shot: Revised. No longer adds a buff that increases your attack speed. Now a ranged damage finisher that fires 1 shot per combo point up to a maximum of 5 shots. 20 second cooldown.
    Which is silly. They are making MM into the new pyro, except there will still be pyro. I enjoy my ranged specs. I love the current MM where kiting is the design. After these changes though it's just going to be a faceroll spec. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying MM was in a great spot. They needed some buffs, but this is just silly.

    As for the purges, they won't just be from MM.

    * Degeneration - New Ability: Channels dark energy into the enemy player, dealing Death damage over 3 seconds and removing a single buff effect from the target each second. 30 second cooldown. This ability is obtained after spending 10 points in Archmage.
    etc

    This is going to be painfully hard on Bards because of energy requirements, and Chloro because they just won't be able to deal with the lv being purged off every time they get into combat. It will also have a huge impact on hot healing classes, meaning that classes that go for single big heals will be much better. Oh, hmm, what souls have those?

    WoW went down this path before, and it ended up being a horrible mistake. They eventually had to go in and add a reduced chance of dispelling your class buffs. That didn't work, and they made it so certain buffs could not be dispelled. It took them ages to do it though. I'm afraid Trion won't have quite as long to learn from that. They should make it so certain things are not able to be purged. Key buffs for classes. I'm not talking about temporary buffs, or anything like that.

    Riftblade blade buffs
    paladin shield buff
    vk void
    bm bond buffs
    warlock armor
    chloro life giving veil
    necro endurance buff
    pyro armor
    etc

    I'm not sure if all of those can be dispelled because I really haven't been lucky enough to play a class with a purge ability that much. I never minded because those abilities were active. Making dispelling a passive ability though is too much.

    rofl people in WF's purge just about as much as they cleanse your general populace isnt going to be purging you, however against a well formed intelligent premade you might be getting purged, but it wont matter because most premades focus down healers anyway
    That is true now, because it's an active ability. When you make it a passive though it becomes much more prominent. People will do it without putting any extra thought into it. Right now they have to make a choice between a purge, or damage. Combining them though is where the problem comes in.
    Last edited by Riftspike; 05-05-2011 at 11:43 AM.

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