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Thread: SC and Dom broken by proposed CC changes

  1. #1
    Rift Disciple
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    Default SC and Dom broken by proposed CC changes

    I really don't see how 100% complete reworks of these two souls are avoidable if the proposed CC changes go live.

    As if this needs an explanation...

    STORMCALLER:
    If you didn't know, applying snares is pretty much unavoidable with the whole hypothermia mechanic. That means any movement control applied after that is already subject to DR's. So since we have that out of the way, what is the point of having so many KB's if only one is gonna be effectual and already subject to DR's? And what about electrocute? It is technically both a KB and a root (when talented), so is the root effect going to be subject to DR's/ineffectual since the KB comes first? How will Hailstorm work since it applies hypothermia on each tick? Will simply getting hit by two ticks make the enemy CC immune? Will hypothermia be applied if the enemy is already CC immune for 30 seconds? Is anyone going to want a stormcaller on their team if all it means is the entire enemy team is CC immune for most of the match? Don't other squishies need their CC's to work for survivability purposes?

    DOMINATOR:
    How will Storm Shackles work since it is as root followed by 3 snares (when talented)? Isnt it kinda pointless if only two CC effects are gonna do anything? And how will overpowering will work since it is reapplied every 2 seconds? Doesnt this ability become worthless? With nearly every ability having a control component, will other non-control components still be applied? And what about reflected spells with CC components? Will enemies be able to reflect mild CC's on themself and thus become immune / resistant to your next CC's? Will anyone want a Dominator on their team if all it means is the enemy team is basically CC immune for most of the match? What good is a dominator as it is clearly inferior in PvE and apparently soon to be in PvP?

    These are big questions Trion. I know this is a new game, but even still these are huge changes to be implementing in a live game. I guess I need to remind you that this is no longer beta (alpha?). People are paying MONEY. We pay too much MONEY to have whole trees (let alone 2 in one class) broken on a whim with no announcement of the intended direction for these souls. You cannot let the proposed CC changes go live without near total reworks of both of these classes or you owe every mage player $15 for each month it takes you to fix them. You have impressed me in the past. I just hope you know what you are doing.

    I originally posted this in the PvP forum but I think that forum is dead. If that breaks rules, sorry

  2. #2
    Ascendant phoenixfire82's Avatar
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    i fear this will fall on deaf ears. i agree with you, though, this change is devastating to sc and dom. playing sc especially will be like griefing your own team.

  3. #3
    Shadowlander Eristoff's Avatar
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    Im agree with you too.

    Really dont know why we can only choose between 3 builds for pvp. Pyro and Walork/chloro or Warlock/necro. SC and Dominator are really funny souls, but with this changes it will be imposible to play it.

    Did u ever try to play a SC with Icicle anytime? try to mantain a warrior or rogue out of range is nearly imposible cause the amount of "teleports" they have, now with this will be totally imposible.
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  4. #4
    aux
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    Someone who proposes changes like this isn't likely to listen to reason.
    This is probably some internal conflict; the class dev unwilling to nerf his babies, and the system dev just doing what he can by nerfing the whole system instead. Then you get a mess like this.
    I'm so BORED

  5. #5
    Prophet of Telara Corian's Avatar
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    I'm still hopeful that stormcaller is still playable after this (except, even more difficult than it is to play now) due to ride the wind spamming and snare immunities.

    I don't think anything can save dominator. It's already a PvP-centric soul, making it useless in PvP means we might as well just get an entirely new concept.

    When the patch hits, I'm going to grit my ****ing teeth and run a primary dominator (probably 51/15 archmage) for as long as I can stand it (my goal is a week, I'm thinking I won't make it) and posting the results of it.

    Thinking about this, the changes take the two most difficult to play mage souls (at least, imo), and make them even MORE difficult to play. Great.
    Last edited by Corian; 04-30-2011 at 12:57 AM.
    This is why we can't have nice things.

  6. #6
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    I dont see how they can fix dom in the new pvp rules without just thrashing him and redoing a new soul around some other concept than "cc soul", sc (and a lot of soul wich have the same problem) can be partially fixed by removing the snare effect from hipotermia spells and adding it back as a off-gcd short term buffs, so one can chose if to use hypotermia spells to add the snare or just to boost dps...
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  7. #7
    Plane Touched Blackfire1's Avatar
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    See I was playing SC and Dom before it was cool. >.<

    I agree the chain stunning needed to be looked at. But the root/snare system was well good. You could still react when rooted/snared,

    But immunity to knockback/root/snare/and pin? that kills off 5+ skills of SC not including anything with hypothermia. What about ellies knockbacks :\

  8. #8
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    I keep hearing SC badly bruised, Dom broken, but i think SC is just as bad off if the changes go live. There is only movement control in SC, and it would be hard not to apply it. What was a decent kiting combo of KB and snare is now just a poorly designed and ultimately redundant set of abilities.

  9. #9
    Ascendant Inixia's Avatar
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    Dominator will be very bad come these changes, the matchups vs certain class types in all callings is already difficult for the class due to how little surivivability they have when cc is broken and how little dps they have to capitalize on cc periods. Now we only have two dr groups and diminishing returns on all cc effects, and only 1 group to use against ranged classes, and break free plus immunity to all classes. I don't think any class has experienced a nerf this devastating before, and its sad to see it as a byproduct of issues outside of dominator itself.
    Almost all of dominator high damage spells have cc worked into them too, so its almost impossible to dps anyone without making them immune. I'm working Dom/Sc atm to give you an idea how much this will change the class I have 7 spells with snare/hypothermia in them, 4 with knockback, 4 with root, 2 with silence, 2 with confuse, 1 polymorph, and 2 with stuns. About 5 of my 6 best dps spells to work into cc have characteristics of the movement based dr group. Dominator has a grand total of 1.5 cc spells to use against caster/long range melee classes since they aren't hampered by movement based cc now, and in general no ability to capitalize on any cc period (without massively reducing already low dps) without making an opponent immune to the movement based dr.
    This added to the already nonexistant group pve potential. I can't see the class contributing in any gameplay area after this change without some kind of rework.

  10. #10
    Telaran
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    I think it is pretty sad the two most original offensive souls in the calling have been condemned.

    I have a lvl 39 mage who I have been looking forward to grinding to 50 in the next week or so. Being that I don't like to use the normal tactic, or the most obvious one, I had intended to look around some Dom hybrid builds. I like Warlock and Necromancer hybrids all right, but they are a little too common place, and I want at least one role that is something you don't see every battle.

    I guess with Dom and SC being dead in the water, pryo being the most over done thing since sliced bread, and warlock/necromancer being meh common and the other offensive role I intend to fill, there is not much I can do.

    Pyro- broken, looks like it will still be "top dog" after nerfs.
    Warlock/Necromancer- middle ground, but I need more than 1 spec to thrive on.
    Archon/Chloromancer- not offensive, will fill 1 of 4 roles, but not an offensive slot I desire.
    Elementalist- I honestly don't know crap about this soul, but I think that alone is testimony to how meh it is likely to be, in many regards.
    Dominator/Storm Caller- looks like it will be dead in the water after DR's are patched in in 1.2.

    So while our class is one of the best off in terms of over all power, I feel like my options kinda suck.

  11. #11
    Plane Touched Nevergone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faeyre View Post
    Pyro- broken, looks like it will still be "top dog" after nerfs.
    Warlock/Necromancer- middle ground, but I need more than 1 spec to thrive on.
    Archon/Chloromancer- not offensive, will fill 1 of 4 roles, but not an offensive slot I desire.
    Elementalist- I honestly don't know crap about this soul, but I think that alone is testimony to how meh it is likely to be, in many regards.
    Dominator/Storm Caller- looks like it will be dead in the water after DR's are patched in in 1.2.

    So while our class is one of the best off in terms of over all power, I feel like my options kinda suck.
    You hit the nail directly on the head. The changes will result in an increase level of homogeny, not variety

  12. #12
    Rift Disciple Wulfhunter's Avatar
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    Just need to remove the Snare diminishing return, in my opinion. It has no business being in the game. It will do nothing but neuter certain souls (Stormcaller) and make some obscenely better at kiting (Marksman, for one, will benefit heavily from this change).

    Personally I like most of the proposed changes besides the Snare DR. I realize that isn't the whole opinion of the forum, but I do believe this is the most significant issue with the new proposed system. For people that need to break Snares, there are generally multiple options available, including just using Break Free on them if absolutely necessary.

  13. #13
    Plane Touched Nevergone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wulfhunter View Post
    Just need to remove the Snare diminishing return, in my opinion. It has no business being in the game. It will do nothing but neuter certain souls (Stormcaller) and make some obscenely better at kiting (Marksman, for one, will benefit heavily from this change).

    Personally I like most of the proposed changes besides the Snare DR. I realize that isn't the whole opinion of the forum, but I do believe this is the most significant issue with the new proposed system. For people that need to break Snares, there are generally multiple options available, including just using Break Free on them if absolutely necessary.
    I honestly wish they had gone a completely different route instead of changing the DR timers. I would've liked to see them increase the drop rates for rift consumable items (healing seeds, flames, stones, etc) and also create a new consumable that acts exactly the same way as Break Free, with higher level versions a period of immunity.

  14. #14
    Ascendant TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    There just needs to be less CC effects in the game, period. Right now every soul has...what, like 6 or more? That's just not necessary.
    Red ball + fulminate + really craptacular dom/pyro spec trying to hard cast transmog and pray your spell lands before some squirrel punching moron eats your controlled opp proc = +1 board warrior keeping mages from being realistically balanced in PVE or PVP. 1.0-1.2's best combo in the game. RIP FOTM Pyro rollers

  15. #15
    Rift Disciple Wulfhunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nevergone View Post
    I honestly wish they had gone a completely different route instead of changing the DR timers. I would've liked to see them increase the drop rates for rift consumable items (healing seeds, flames, stones, etc) and also create a new consumable that acts exactly the same way as Break Free, with higher level versions a period of immunity.
    That's an interesting idea, but I don't think I like it. Farming solo PvE content just to be as effective as you can in group PvP content doesn't really make sense to me.
    Last edited by Wulfhunter; 05-02-2011 at 11:39 AM.

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