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Thread: Go ahead nerf INQ's ill just start maining a Full healer now im pvp

  1. #31
    Prophet of Telara Skryth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xuros View Post
    Clearly I must have missed the god awful sky is falling nerf post. From what I remember Inq is getting a buff. What's new?
    The 10 second CD added to instant BoD proccs is a 25% loss. It will change from an 8ppm to a 6ppm. The armor buff changes barely make up for the loss.
    Jolly fat people are living proof that it is not possible to "laugh your *** off", though we're trying...

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skryth View Post
    The 10 second CD added to instant BoD proccs is a 25% loss. It will change from an 8ppm to a 6ppm. The armor buff changes barely make up for the loss.
    Just need cooldown to 6 instead of 10 seconds which would increase ppm to around 10. At least the aggresive renewal change is a pure buff for inquis.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by jMerliN View Post
    They're not good at all in PvP. Not at all. Please stop this misconception.
    Exactly where they should be and do plenty fine in PvP as long as you aren't healing undergeared pugs vs a premade.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by jMerliN View Post
    1. Wardens suck in PvP. Your group is "facerolling" pugs and bads. The very best premades with Wardens (the best premades don't use wardens, but the best of the ones who do) on Guardian here get smashed by even pick-up premades because Wardens can't do **** when I call for interrupts, silences, and debuffs on them. You are playing BAD PEOPLE. That does not make your specs viable.
    Um, wouldn't coordinated CC on any healer be just the same?

    Quote Originally Posted by jMerliN View Post
    2. It wasn't God-like. The term 'God' also implies great power, omnipotence. I could only maintain that kind of survivability WITH A CLERIC HEALING ME, IN MoL. This makes my doctrines heal terribly (no, not "mid heals" -- BAD HEALS). I am COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY USELESS except as a sham-wow to your damage water. I just soak it all up. You're TERRIBLE AT PVP if you attack me, even for a second. THIS IS COMPLETELY BALANCED. I AM HARD TO KILL BUT I CANNOT HEAL ANYONE, AND I CANNOT HURT YOU. THEREFORE YOU IGNORE ME. PVP 101 MOTHER****ER.
    Um, yeah, going to side with the other angry ranting dude on this. If all warfronts were just death matches you would be correct. It would be dumb to attack you and opposing team could still win without ever having to kill you. But when you holding fangs, carrying crystals, and capturing nodes is the basis of warfronts, you are completely wrong. Staying alive is real objective in those cases, not killing people.

  5. #35
    Plane Walker Kalizaar's Avatar
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    I love how people can state all sorts of supportive arguments that make complete sense against jMerlin and all he has to do is say "I'm right, you're wrong na-na-nuh-boo-boo troll!!1!" and that's /thread in his mind. And stating he's the best cleric on his shard... while using an OP spec that even he recognizes as OP. lol wow. It's too bad there isn't a pill to cure pure idiocy like that. Welcome to forum ignore.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalizaar View Post
    I love how people can state all sorts of supportive arguments that make complete sense against jMerlin and all he has to do is say "I'm right, you're wrong na-na-nuh-boo-boo troll!!1!" and that's /thread in his mind. And stating he's the best cleric on his shard... while using an OP spec that even he recognizes as OP. lol wow. It's too bad there isn't a pill to cure pure idiocy like that. Welcome to forum ignore.
    I've never recognized a completely fine spec as OP. If you think it's OP, you're just terrible at this game. Honestly, any decent mage can kill me REGARDLESS OF SPEC. Any good warrior can beat me consistently, but I can beat many warriors. No rogues can beat me, period. So you have 2 callings where good players can take down a cleric by themselves, and rogues can do just fine contribution in group PvP settings. I don't see anything at all overpowered about that, considering that spec requires that I be unable to do anything near "abysmal" dps to you. Pyros are both harder to kill AND can decimate entire parties with little assistance. You, sir, must not play the same game as me.

    And yes, I am recognizing that rogues need halp. And after they get halp, any good rogue will be able to beat me solo at a consistent rate. That leaves us losing to all callings in 1v1 -- yet you'll still whine that we're "overpowered." Sigh. Bad players will always be bad. Clerics are borderline UP on every viable spec and massively UP on a good number of them, yet bads who think "just cuz he can heal himself means he is OP, his health isnt going from 100%->0% in 5 seconds like mobs I fight while I just smash my dps buttonz!, omg he is OP". I honestly mean this: learn to play.
    Last edited by jMerliN; 05-04-2011 at 10:09 AM.

  7. #37
    Xsi
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    Quote Originally Posted by jMerliN View Post
    I've never recognized a completely fine spec as OP. If you think it's OP, you're just terrible at this game. Honestly, any decent mage can kill me REGARDLESS OF SPEC. Any good warrior can beat me consistently, but I can beat many warriors. No rogues can beat me, period. So you have 2 callings where good players can take down a cleric by themselves, and rogues can do just fine contribution in group PvP settings. I don't see anything at all overpowered about that, considering that spec requires that I be unable to do anything near "abysmal" dps to you. Pyros are both harder to kill AND can decimate entire parties with little assistance. You, sir, must not play the same game as me.

    And yes, I am recognizing that rogues need halp. And after they get halp, any good rogue will be able to beat me solo at a consistent rate. That leaves us losing to all callings in 1v1 -- yet you'll still whine that we're "overpowered." Sigh. Bad players will always be bad. Clerics are borderline UP on every viable spec and massively UP on a good number of them, yet bads who think "just cuz he can heal himself means he is OP, his health isnt going from 100%->0% in 5 seconds like mobs I fight while I just smash my dps buttonz!, omg he is OP". I honestly mean this: learn to play.
    You're posting to people who are /trolling or generally unable to see the point. You are whispering at a rock concert and trying to be heard. It just won't work.

    To give it a parallel, just because rogues have stealth (invisibility) are they overpowered? You say it yourself, Rogues need help. But some people will keep on stating over and over, well, they have invisibility. They can fill any role. They are the most popular class. Yet, they also forget that none of those items actually addresses the core issues at hand.

    But what you need to stop doing is comparing yourself to the Pyro offensive/defensive power (the top of the bar) or how you personally play against other classes with your PvP spec and more to the middle ground where everyone else lives (save for some rotten souls sitting well below). Once you realize you aren't anywhere near that bad off (with these 1.2 changes) compared to most other non-Pyro souls, realize that these changes make complete sense to do.

    So now you're talking about changes that are so far down on the Trion priority list, you should either accept them, reroll, or cancel subscription and come back when it suits you to do so.
    Last edited by Xsi; 05-04-2011 at 01:14 PM.
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  8. #38
    Telaran Ashrawr's Avatar
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    But clerics have tank, shield, deeps AND heals.
    Our beautiful, tortured biosphere.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xsi View Post
    You're posting to people who are /trolling or generally unable to see the point. You are whispering at a rock concert and trying to be heard. It just won't work.

    To give it a parallel, just because rogues have stealth (invisibility) are they overpowered? You say it yourself, Rogues need help. But some people will keep on stating over and over, well, they have invisibility. They can fill any role. They are the most popular class. Yet, they also forget that none of those items actually addresses the core issues at hand.

    But what you need to stop doing is comparing yourself to the Pyro offensive/defensive power (the top of the bar) or how you personally play against other classes with your PvP spec and more to the middle ground where everyone else lives (save for some rotten souls sitting well below). Once you realize you aren't anywhere near that bad off (with these 1.2 changes) compared to most other non-Pyro souls, realize that these changes make complete sense to do.

    So now you're talking about changes that are so far down on the Trion priority list, you should either accept them, reroll, or cancel subscription and come back when it suits you to do so.
    I don't even understand what you were trying to say here. I think you're confused.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashrawr View Post
    But clerics have tank, shield, deeps AND heals.
    We can tank (worst of the 3 callings that can), we have a shield which has almost no armor and almost no spellpower and pitiful block, we have piss poor DPS compared to every other calling (except a melee-dps spec which has poor AoE dps but average single-target dps) except arguably rogues, but on average I think they beat us, and our healing isn't as good as chloros.

    We're not the best at anything. What are you complaining about, again? That we can do everything, even if poorly? We don't have a support soul, though..
    Last edited by jMerliN; 05-04-2011 at 01:37 PM.

  10. #40
    GTG
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    Ultimately, to the people who are calling for the survivability nerfs for clerics... what are you trying to achieve?

    Are you trying to push out a PvP-role that you already whining and moan about if there is only 1 in the warfront? Are you trying to have fewer healers, at the end of the day, so you can cry about your less-than-mediocre performance against class X until its nerfed too?

    A healer in PvP is one of, if not *the*, least represented calling in any warfront. Did cleric survivability need some fine tuning? Sure.. against completely absent-minded PuG's, a well played cleric could make all the difference because they could survive against a fusillade of bad players; letting the other mouth-breathing DPS kill the idiots on the other team.

    What well-played class can't make a difference against really bad players? It's a pretty asinine argument.

    The ultimate result of this isn't going to be a healing balance, it's going to further the imbalance of represented souls in the PvP environment... the same environment where several of your are complaining about not having enough healers, day in and day out.

    A cleric with lower survivability, 300 hps less output than your average dps, and marginal CC is going to further reduce the "fun" in playing the calling.. and result in an overall lower amount of healers in warfronts.

    Balancing can't be done with a sledgehammer... what works for DPS isn't necessarily the same 'balancing' measures that should be taken from a Healing/HPS perspective. All this does is hedge more warfronts on the side of who has *a* healer.
    Last edited by GTG; 05-04-2011 at 01:53 PM.
    Kazox - Level 50 Cleric (Warden/Sentinel/Purifier)

  11. #41
    Telaran Ashrawr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jMerliN View Post
    We're not the best at anything. What are you complaining about, again? That we can do everything, even if poorly? We don't have a support soul, though..
    I play a cleric tank, and spend much times trolling loser posts about nerfing clerics or why the sky only falls on failures.

    I get the feeling that you didn't read this thread in full. But clearly I need to get more obviously sarkeeyyy.
    EDIT: added in Pink.
    Last edited by Ashrawr; 05-04-2011 at 02:32 PM.
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  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTG View Post
    Ultimately, to the people who are calling for the survivability nerfs for clerics... what are you trying to achieve?

    Are you trying to push out a PvP-role that you already whining and moan about if there is only 1 in the warfront? Are you trying to have fewer healers, at the end of the day, so you can cry about your less-than-mediocre performance against class X until its nerfed too?

    A healer in PvP is one of, if not *the*, least represented calling in any warfront. Did cleric survivability need some fine tuning? Sure.. against completely absent-minded PuG's, a well played cleric could make all the difference because they could survive against a fusillade of bad players; letting the other mouth-breathing DPS kill the idiots on the other team.

    What well-played class can't make a difference against really bad players? It's a pretty asinine argument.

    The ultimate result of this isn't going to be a healing balance, it's going to further the imbalance of represented souls in the PvP environment... the same environment where several of your are complaining about not having enough healers, day in and day out.

    A cleric with lower survivability, 300 hps less output than your average dps, and marginal CC is going to further reduce the "fun" in playing the calling.. and result in an overall lower amount of healers in warfronts.

    Balancing can't be done with a sledgehammer... what works for DPS isn't necessarily the same 'balancing' measures that should be taken from a Healing/HPS perspective. All this does is hedge more warfronts on the side of who has *a* healer.
    I don't want it to burn to the ground, but the tanky healer "Neener-Neener you can't have my flag ever" spec should. I honestly think they ought to buff healing, just get rid of the tanky'ness of it... if that makes any sense. I guess, to put it differently, I would prefer that healers could keep other people alive better, instead of just being the last one alive. Just my opinion, but I think a healer that could heal others well, with maybe an escape tool or so, that relied on peeling and just better team play than just tanking everything would be far more compelling game play. Healing is a *****. It can't be so weak that one dude can just roll up on you like you're a free kill, but it can't be so strong that it takes 5 people 30 minutes to kill one either. WoW could never balance the **** either, so good luck to Trion with it.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trinich View Post
    I don't want it to burn to the ground, but the tanky healer "Neener-Neener you can't have my flag ever" spec should. I honestly think they ought to buff healing, just get rid of the tanky'ness of it... if that makes any sense. I guess, to put it differently, I would prefer that healers could keep other people alive better, instead of just being the last one alive. Just my opinion, but I think a healer that could heal others well, with maybe an escape tool or so, that relied on peeling and just better team play than just tanking everything would be far more compelling game play. Healing is a *****. It can't be so weak that one dude can just roll up on you like you're a free kill, but it can't be so strong that it takes 5 people 30 minutes to kill one either. WoW could never balance the **** either, so good luck to Trion with it.
    Right now it's really in a bad place. The mere presence of spammable and AoE healing debuffs at 50% is obnoxious. Nobody wants to heal when a big heal crits for 1700 on someone, when half of the strong dps builds have nukes that can crit for far more than that much (we're talking a 3s cast crit here.. seriously.. wtf?). If heal debuffs were toned down to single-target only with AT LEAST 45s cooldowns, it'd probably fix PvP healing.

    It seems like this game has way too much "offensive **** that causes really really bad effects."
    Last edited by jMerliN; 05-04-2011 at 03:31 PM.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by jMerliN View Post
    Right now it's really in a bad place. The mere presence of spammable and AoE healing debuffs at 50% is obnoxious. Nobody wants to heal when a big heal crits for 1700 on someone, when half of the strong dps builds have nukes that can crit for far more than that much (we're talking a 3s cast crit here.. seriously.. wtf?). If heal debuffs were toned down to single-target only with AT LEAST 45s cooldowns, it'd probably fix PvP healing.

    It seems like this game has way too much "offensive **** that causes really really bad effects."
    Hmm, I'm not entirely sure. Who all can get them? I know Chloros can get a short duration one, Champs have probably the easiest best one. Necros have a 30% debuff, NB's get one really deep in their tree. Do any of the cleric souls have one? I'd have to look. I wouldn't say they're super prevalent, but I do think the AoEing it out is kind of stupid. I can see that 2 or 3 people attacking someone with a healing debuff are pretty much going to kill that person. I can live with that, but it should still take more than 4 seconds, debuff or not. I think healing needs a slight buff, healing debuffs should be single target, and everyone should have their base health increased, while keeping damage where it is. And, as new gear comes out or x pacs come out, they have to keep the hp relative to damage done, or you end up with WoW PvP, which hilariously enough, Blizz said they were going to do the things I listed, and completely screwed it up.
    Last edited by Trinich; 05-04-2011 at 03:42 PM.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by jMerliN View Post
    1. Wardens suck in PvP. Your group is "facerolling" pugs and bads. The very best premades with Wardens (the best premades don't use wardens, but the best of the ones who do) on Guardian here get smashed by even pick-up premades because Wardens can't do **** when I call for interrupts, silences, and debuffs on them. You are playing BAD PEOPLE. That does not make your specs viable.
    Which of the above cannot be done to Sentinels, Purfiers, or Chloros? Or any caster?

    You can do all of that and more to a Warden, and pre 1.2 their hots would just keep rolling. They were the best healing class in PvP, hands down.
    Last edited by Sundial; 05-11-2011 at 02:04 PM.

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