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Thread: Ok Trion, here is the deal...

  1. #1
    Rift Disciple
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    Default Ok Trion, here is the deal...

    I've been carefully watching this 'PyroGoS' farce, since it came to light how horribly OP this combination is.

    Warfronts are now packed to the rafters with Pyro-Cleric trains who are just running riot over 'PUGs' time after time. Don't give me 'l2p' garbage either, the majority of your playerbase who enjoy PvP, are folk who tend to play solo, not l33t teenies who group w*nk over online catalogue lingerie sections, whilst on Ventrilo.

    Rift PvP is broken. Your 'balance' team are clueless. This game is going right down the toilet, unless you do some about it tout suite.

    Another day started today with numerous folk 'QQ' about exactly the same stuff - Pyromancers. Threats of cancelling subs is commonplace in WF chat now, and it's becoming depressing. This issue is so obviously flawed, it should have been hot-fixed within 24hrs of it becoming apparent.

    One last question, aimed at Scott Hartman; Scott, why have you employed a failed balance lead as your lead class balancer in Rift? Umadbro?

  2. #2
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spaceweed10 View Post
    This issue is so obviously flawed, it should have been hot-fixed within 24hrs of it becoming apparent.
    Class balance issues should never be treated without care. I'm sure you'd make a great game designer, but they've stated they're not hotfixing class changes. They said they're looking into it, 1.2 will introduce changes. Wait until then, cry if the changes aren't good enough.

  3. #3
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spaceweed10 View Post
    Another day started today with numerous folk 'QQ' about exactly the same stuff - Pyromancers. Threats of cancelling subs is commonplace in WF chat now, and it's becoming depressing. This issue is so obviously flawed, it should have been hot-fixed within 24hrs of it becoming apparent.


    What's preventing your side from doing the same thing? Instead everyone whines and wants to rage? Too funny...
    Last edited by Venal; 04-28-2011 at 03:49 AM.

  4. #4
    Plane Touched Ratkin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venal View Post
    What's preventing your side from doing the same thing? Instead everyone whines and wants to rage? Too funny...
    Not really interested in playing "Clerics & Pyro vs. Clerics & Pyro"...

  5. #5
    Rift Disciple abix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venal View Post
    What's preventing your side from doing the same thing? Instead everyone whines and wants to rage? Too funny...
    Maybe then split WF's for classes? Clerics+Mages in one room and Rogues+Warriors in other. Im sure in that case the balance will be ideal....
    EU >> Cloudbourne >> Rogue >> Rank 6

  6. #6
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    This is a new and exciting topic that hasn't been discussed before and rightly deserves its' own thread.

  7. #7
    Plane Walker Squeegee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spaceweed10 View Post
    I've been carefully watching this 'PyroGoS' farce, since it came to light how horribly OP this combination is.

    Warfronts are now packed to the rafters with Pyro-Cleric trains who are just running riot over 'PUGs' time after time. Don't give me 'l2p' garbage either, the majority of your playerbase who enjoy PvP, are folk who tend to play solo, not l33t teenies who group w*nk over online catalogue lingerie sections, whilst on Ventrilo.

    Rift PvP is broken. Your 'balance' team are clueless. This game is going right down the toilet, unless you do some about it tout suite.

    Another day started today with numerous folk 'QQ' about exactly the same stuff - Pyromancers. Threats of cancelling subs is commonplace in WF chat now, and it's becoming depressing. This issue is so obviously flawed, it should have been hot-fixed within 24hrs of it becoming apparent.

    One last question, aimed at Scott Hartman; Scott, why have you employed a failed balance lead as your lead class balancer in Rift? Umadbro?
    Question: Are you going to quit the game if this doesn't get resolved in the next week?
    Shut your pie hole!!!

  8. #8
    Plane Touched
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    Ok here's the deal Spaceweed... L2P.

    Also, stop ******* to catalogs!

  9. #9
    RIFT Guide Writer Redcruxs's Avatar
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    god, its like people don't know that the alpha patch notes are already released...


    go take a gander, GoS and pyro/dom is getting massive nerf, you'll still get killed by pyro's after the patch but thats a whole other issue

    (you suck)


    how do i know? the good players already wipe the floor with my pryo, and if you had half the skill you think you do then you'd be able to do the same instead of crying on the forums.

    also you will still get rolled by premades, better quit now and save yourself the trouble later

  10. #10
    Shadowlander Gwannatar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nuisance View Post
    Class balance issues should never be treated without care. I'm sure you'd make a great game designer, but they've stated they're not hotfixing class changes. They said they're looking into it, 1.2 will introduce changes. Wait until then, cry if the changes aren't good enough.
    And that, my friend, is just company strategy; which is only oriented on the maximization of income. So they "treat with care". Oh yeah? I wouldn't say that. Why not hotfix something that is obviously broken but wait till the next patch?

    Because by declaring you that it WILL be "looked at" in a future patch, the company buys itself a nice time window to act about it, while keeping you the customer grinding your favor/prestige/x/y/whatever in naive hopes while waiting for a fix. After all, your problem is being "looked at" now, right? So you are safe, you can rest assured.

    Seriously, do you REALLY think that the game developers are not aware of the balance issues while the players are aware of them since the start?

    Would it be too hard for a game developer to understand that when a class simply has everything that is good for pvp: high survivability, immunity to all kind of CC (lol really WTF? cc immunity in pvp??) and an insanely high burst, this would cause imbalance? Why not just simply fix it?

    Do you really think that they don't know ?

    Lets face the truth here, pvp will not be the priority for the devs. They'll always think that the community complaints can wait a bit longer, until they have time to "look at" pvp problems. The bugs and pve problems will always be hotfixed without keeping you waiting for too long, though.

    Lets face another truth. By being told that the problem is being "looked at" (lol I just love the expression in this wtf is there to look, you don't know your own game?) you still continue paying your subscription, thinking like:
    "well.. no balance but hey, apparently they don't want to rush things. I'm waiting this long because it's an important issue and they care about it oh-so much. They threat my problem with care, that's why I wait. Yeah."

    Pyro's probably won't be randomly stunning their target now in 1.2. And they have their insane burst damage slightly lowered. But honestly, is the balance done now? I think it will be, but later. Just not now.

    In MMO's, there will always be at least 1 class who has the high advantage in PvP. Because it keeps pvp'ers in game, without getting the company in the trouble to balance out every single class after every patch. By 1 or more class being OP, more players will reroll to OP class(es), resulting in more characters by each individual account, resulting in players having more reasons to log in the game in the future. This also keeps the player logged in. You're frustrated while grinding prestige to your warrior in Scion? No probs! just log on to your pyro. This way you feel like you have an 'option', even though you have just been 'forced' to grind another toon because of the game's pvp imbalance.

    The only thing that the company needs to be careful at while applying this strategy, is the duration to keep the same class OP for. How long should class X be "OP"? If you keep it too low, you won't get the benefit of re-rolls, so: no need to hotfix things. Just tell them that you'll never 'hotfix' the class balance issues, because you'll always treat them with sweet "care". Sloooooow care.. Even if you know everything of the game by heart, as you coded it yourself.

    And if you keep the class x OP for too long and not switch to the next one in queue, that is where you actually start to lose subscriptions. (remember "Bright Wizard"?)

    Well. Maybe it was different back in the old days but, this is how the MMO business works today, in reality. And will be staying this way as long as it is easier then just balancing every class combo against each other. In fact, most of us are actually very familiar with this "OP rotation", having seen the glorius times of DK's, (season 5 anyone?) or frost mages, the sl/sl locks, muti-rogues, disc priests, retrilols or holy paladins, huntards.. hell, even moonkins had their time.

    So before being trolled, tl;dr'ed, insulted etc., (which is just the fate of almost every post in these forums), I just want to tell you my fellow Rift fans thank you for reading, and don't worry. That evil class X will be nerfed. (To make class Y op)

    Have fun
    Quote Originally Posted by Shizrips View Post
    Welcome to Rift, the only game where mages and rogues have more survivability than Warriors. Also the only game where 2 handed weapon damage is laughable in pvp.

  11. #11
    Plane Walker Squeegee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gwannatar View Post
    Why not hotfix something that is obviously broken but wait till the next patch?
    Do you really think that something like this can be done in a day? Do you really want them to put something in that was changed, tested, tweaked, tested, tweaked again all in the span of 24 hours?

    Look dingle nuts....balancing is a very touchy issue that has to be tested. If they fubar it even more when they change it, it will just lead to more QQ and more people actually leaving.

    If you would actually stop playing a game after a couple weeks because one class is more powerful than the rest WHEN they have a pocket healer, then you probably aren't going to keep playing, so why would they care what you think anyway?

    So take a step back, calm down, and stop acting like the pyro that killed you touched you in your private places.
    Shut your pie hole!!!

  12. #12
    Shadowlander Gwannatar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squeegee View Post
    Do you really think that something like this can be done in a day?
    You're so cute when you think that "a game developer wouldn't know by advance that: awesome burst and mitigation, mixed with random stuns and cc immunity would be OP." Right.

    And also that; "it would take several weeks of testing testing and testing just to realize that noone should ever have this kind of mixture in a pvp environment."

    You naive thing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shizrips View Post
    Welcome to Rift, the only game where mages and rogues have more survivability than Warriors. Also the only game where 2 handed weapon damage is laughable in pvp.

  13. #13
    Telaran MightyWok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spaceweed10 View Post
    I've been carefully watching this 'PyroGoS' farce, since it came to light how horribly OP this combination is.

    Warfronts are now packed to the rafters with Pyro-Cleric trains who are just running riot over 'PUGs' time after time. Don't give me 'l2p' garbage either, the majority of your playerbase who enjoy PvP, are folk who tend to play solo, not l33t teenies who group w*nk over online catalogue lingerie sections, whilst on Ventrilo.

    Rift PvP is broken. Your 'balance' team are clueless. This game is going right down the toilet, unless you do some about it tout suite.

    Another day started today with numerous folk 'QQ' about exactly the same stuff - Pyromancers. Threats of cancelling subs is commonplace in WF chat now, and it's becoming depressing. This issue is so obviously flawed, it should have been hot-fixed within 24hrs of it becoming apparent.

    One last question, aimed at Scott Hartman; Scott, why have you employed a failed balance lead as your lead class balancer in Rift? Umadbro?
    PvP is childish. Go play Tekken if you want to bully other people.

  14. #14
    Shadowlander Gwannatar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MightyWok View Post
    PvP is childish. Go play Tekken if you want to bully other people.
    Well, some of us like the excitement and the randomness of it, especially the ones who do not think that fighting a brainless mob is a challenge.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shizrips View Post
    Welcome to Rift, the only game where mages and rogues have more survivability than Warriors. Also the only game where 2 handed weapon damage is laughable in pvp.

  15. #15
    Plane Touched
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gwannatar View Post
    In MMO's, there will always be at least 1 class who has the high advantage in PvP. Because it keeps pvp'ers in game, without getting the company in the trouble to balance out every single class after every patch. By 1 or more class being OP, more players will reroll to OP class(es), resulting in more characters by each individual account, resulting in players having more reasons to log in the game in the future. This also keeps the player logged in. You're frustrated while grinding prestige to your warrior in Scion? No probs! just log on to your pyro. This way you feel like you have an 'option', even though you have just been 'forced' to grind another toon because of the game's pvp imbalance.

    The only thing that the company needs to be careful at while applying this strategy, is the duration to keep the same class OP for. How long should class X be "OP"? If you keep it too low, you won't get the benefit of re-rolls, so: no need to hotfix things. Just tell them that you'll never 'hotfix' the class balance issues, because you'll always treat them with sweet "care". Sloooooow care.. Even if you know everything of the game by heart, as you coded it yourself.

    And if you keep the class x OP for too long and not switch to the next one in queue, that is where you actually start to lose subscriptions. (remember "Bright Wizard"?)

    Well. Maybe it was different back in the old days but, this is how the MMO business works today, in reality. And will be staying this way as long as it is easier then just balancing every class combo against each other. In fact, most of us are actually very familiar with this "OP rotation", having seen the glorius times of DK's, (season 5 anyone?) or frost mages, the sl/sl locks, muti-rogues, disc priests, retrilols or holy paladins, huntards.. hell, even moonkins had their time.
    Very good post, full of truth. Some of us just still has hope, but unfortunately business is business, theres no dignity, just money money money.
    Last edited by Zax1; 04-28-2011 at 10:29 AM.

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