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Thread: Defensive Dispels and Deathly Calling...

  1. #1
    Plane Walker
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    Default Defensive Dispels and Deathly Calling...

    I'm really annoyed by stacking debuffs like Deathly Calling, because they render any kind of defenseive dispelling completely useless.

    It's utterly unfair that something that's supposed to have a minor effect like increaseing your damage by a tiny percentage instead has the effect of making it completely impossible to dispel your other spells because any kind of dispel will never get through the gigantic stack of trash debuffs.

    This needs some looking into. Debuffs that apply themselves en masse over and over and over should not be considered curses, poisons and diseases but be in their own non-dispellable category.

    Alternatively dispel spells could be changed to prioritize actual spells over stacking trash effects.

  2. #2
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    I think you'll find that Deathly Calling is something you don't want to have on you. Take a look at the necromancer's pets some time, have a gander at their spells (the pet's) and see exactly what those stacks are doing to those spells. Deathly Calling stacks do the following:

    Skeletal Zealot:
    Blood Spike: reduces cool down by (0.5-2secs)
    Soul Rend: +30% extra damage per stack
    Jagged Wound: Nothing

    Skeletal Knight:
    Bone Strike: +10% damager per stack
    Grave Touch: Consumes stack and does damage
    Bone Shatter: Consumes stack to make this spell AoE

    Shadow Revenant:
    Ruination: chains to up to 4 enemies if main target is affected by deathly calling. Spreads DoTs.
    Oblivion: nothing
    Blood Corruption: Converts stacks of Deathly Calling to stacks of Blood Corrption (5 stacks max) does damage over time.

    So as you can see, having deathly calling on you multiplies the necro pet's damage by alot and allows some effects to spread to your friends.
    I'M RIFTSTALKING YOUR MUM!

    I've found that Warriors are like Feminists. They want equality when it suits them, but the rest of the time they want to be treated special.

  3. #3
    Sword of Telara Mr Malingers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paikis View Post
    I think you'll find that Deathly Calling is something you don't want to have on you. Take a look at the necromancer's pets some time, have a gander at their spells (the pet's) and see exactly what those stacks are doing to those spells. Deathly Calling stacks do the following:

    Skeletal Zealot:
    Blood Spike: reduces cool down by (0.5-2secs)
    Soul Rend: +30% extra damage per stack
    Jagged Wound: Nothing

    Skeletal Knight:
    Bone Strike: +10% damager per stack
    Grave Touch: Consumes stack and does damage
    Bone Shatter: Consumes stack to make this spell AoE

    Shadow Revenant:
    Ruination: chains to up to 4 enemies if main target is affected by deathly calling. Spreads DoTs.
    Oblivion: nothing
    Blood Corruption: Converts stacks of Deathly Calling to stacks of Blood Corrption (5 stacks max) does damage over time.

    So as you can see, having deathly calling on you multiplies the necro pet's damage by alot and allows some effects to spread to your friends.
    Grats on reading the tooltips but not noticing their practical application.
    Plague Bolt is a dps loss and Grave Rot is applying it to 7 other people who will not take any increased damage only eat up cleanses.

    And Deathly Calling is not the only stacking effect, which is what the OP was talking about more than how important Deathly Calling is or isn't.
    Maybe he just wanted to steal our wire cutters. You ever think of that?

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    Sword of Telara Mr Malingers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ebethil View Post
    I'm really annoyed by stacking debuffs like Deathly Calling, because they render any kind of defenseive dispelling completely useless.

    It's utterly unfair that something that's supposed to have a minor effect like increaseing your damage by a tiny percentage instead has the effect of making it completely impossible to dispel your other spells because any kind of dispel will never get through the gigantic stack of trash debuffs.

    This needs some looking into. Debuffs that apply themselves en masse over and over and over should not be considered curses, poisons and diseases but be in their own non-dispellable category.

    Alternatively dispel spells could be changed to prioritize actual spells over stacking trash effects.
    A revue of stacking debuffs would be nice, but they can't blanket move all stackables to non-dispellable.
    Some would be OP at that point.
    Maybe he just wanted to steal our wire cutters. You ever think of that?

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    Not all stackable effects should be non-dispellable, that's true, but any that apply themselves more quickly than you could possibly ever remove them for the whole duration of the fight should definately not just be a total immunity to defensive dispelling.

    I mean when you're fighting a Necrolock and you got 5 DOTs on you and you can't dispel any of them, and even if you did they can reapply most of them just as fast as you can dispel them, and on top of all that their pet applies debuffs that completely negate your dispells... that's BS.

  6. #6
    Sword of Telara Mr Malingers's Avatar
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    They also lack any dispel protection that TBH DoT classes need in order to function in PvP.
    It would be equally unfair for you to just hit an instant cast cleanse and remove all their dps before they even do it. They don't have the "stand and dps" output that Pyro/SC and other DD classes have.

    Hiding their DoTs under stacking debuffs isn't the answer either, but it's not as simple as just letting you dispel their DoTs after 1 tick effectively making them do no damage.

    Some middle ground needs to be reached so you can target the important ones but not have free reign over all of them.
    Maybe he just wanted to steal our wire cutters. You ever think of that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Malingers View Post
    Grats on reading the tooltips but not noticing their practical application.
    Plague Bolt is a dps loss and Grave Rot is applying it to 7 other people who will not take any increased damage only eat up cleanses.

    And Deathly Calling is not the only stacking effect, which is what the OP was talking about more than how important Deathly Calling is or isn't.
    You're right, applying DC stacks is a bad idea, people should stop doing it.
    I'M RIFTSTALKING YOUR MUM!

    I've found that Warriors are like Feminists. They want equality when it suits them, but the rest of the time they want to be treated special.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Malingers View Post
    They also lack any dispel protection that TBH DoT classes need in order to function in PvP.
    It would be equally unfair for you to just hit an instant cast cleanse and remove all their dps before they even do it. They don't have the "stand and dps" output that Pyro/SC and other DD classes have.
    That's hardly how it works out in reality. Most DOTs are instant cast and have no cooldown, so if you just stood there trying to dispel everything that ever hit you you'd still lose the fight because you wouldn't be doing any damage back to your attacker, you'd just stand there bleeding hitpoints while dispelling one debuff at a time.

    Defensive dispels are there so you can:
    a) Get rid of random DOTs that people just throw on everyone without really following up on them.
    b) Get rid of a stack of DOTs after you've already retreated from out of your opponents LOS.
    c) Get rid of a stack of DOTs after you've already won the fight or made your opponent retreat.
    d) Get rid of particularly powerful debuffs or effects that your opponent can't instantly reapply.

    All of those are perfectly valid uses that are just flat out denied by bad prioritizing on the dispel and stacks of trash debuffs.

    It's really not the DOT classes that are being screwed over by dispels, since its not exactly like anyone can dispel and attack/heal at the same time.

  9. #9
    Sword of Telara Mr Malingers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paikis View Post
    You're right, applying DC stacks is a bad idea, people should stop doing it.
    For the second time in this thread you've missed the point. Bravo.
    Maybe he just wanted to steal our wire cutters. You ever think of that?

  10. #10
    Sword of Telara Mr Malingers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ebethil View Post
    That's hardly how it works out in reality. Most DOTs are instant cast and have no cooldown, so if you just stood there trying to dispel everything that ever hit you you'd still lose the fight because you wouldn't be doing any damage back to your attacker, you'd just stand there bleeding hitpoints while dispelling one debuff at a time.

    Defensive dispels are there so you can:
    a) Get rid of random DOTs that people just throw on everyone without really following up on them.
    b) Get rid of a stack of DOTs after you've already retreated from out of your opponents LOS.
    c) Get rid of a stack of DOTs after you've already won the fight or made your opponent retreat.
    d) Get rid of particularly powerful debuffs or effects that your opponent can't instantly reapply.

    All of those are perfectly valid uses that are just flat out denied by bad prioritizing on the dispel and stacks of trash debuffs.

    It's really not the DOT classes that are being screwed over by dispels, since its not exactly like anyone can dispel and attack/heal at the same time.

    Well you don't have to sit there and dispel them immediately, you can let them tick a couple of times while you multitask and than dispel them reducing DoT classes damage by 80% which is more than enough to win the fight.

    And there are plenty of DoTs with a cooldown, a Necrolock will have 4 DoTs, 2 of them have cooldowns.


    And people can dispel and heal at the same time, Wardens.


    You and I are mostly on the same boat here. Agree on the problem just not the fix.

    It would be simpler if there wasn't just a single dispel all spell. That way you could be more specific in your dispelling by selecting the dispel that was of the type you were after removing.
    Now you just have to get lucky.

    But I have a feeling dispelers would feel this is a nerf.
    Maybe he just wanted to steal our wire cutters. You ever think of that?

  11. #11
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    As long as Deathly Calling and DOTs are both curses the biggest offender wouldn't be affected at all by your solution...

  12. #12
    Rift Master bubulu's Avatar
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    OP, you are the most biased poster ever, well most posters are biased.

    Your defensive dispel has no cooldown. While you throw HoTs around, you want to also dispel every DoTs? Your HoTs are healing all DoT damages and you don't want to take any damage at all?

    Plus, offensive dispel has cooldown, with all those bard buffs, HoTs, healing proc, I think it would be more fair if we can prioritize offensive dispel to target your main buffs and heals first, instead of dispelling all those trash buffs.

    Think logically before you made a biased post like this. A warden is already invincible and DoTs are just pathetic to your HoTs, don't know why you even bother dispelling.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Malingers View Post
    For the second time in this thread you've ignored the point. Bravo.
    FYP..

    Anyhow, to address the point, there are two issues here. Firstly, stacking stuff is blocking your cures from curing stuff you want them to. Secondly, DoT classes would be screwed if you could simply cure all their damage before it happens.

    The first issue is basically stopping the second one from happening.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Malingers View Post
    Grats on reading the tooltips but not noticing their practical application.
    Plague Bolt is a dps loss and Grave Rot is applying it to 7 other people who will not take any increased damage only eat up cleanses.
    I've underlined the issues I have with your post. Plague Bolt is only a DPS loss if you've already got 5 stacks on the target, and people who have been hit by Grave Rot will generally be your next targets. Deathly Calling increases your damage by a fair amount, so pre-stacking them helps... also it annoys healers (Apparently, never been an issue for my cleric)
    I'M RIFTSTALKING YOUR MUM!

    I've found that Warriors are like Feminists. They want equality when it suits them, but the rest of the time they want to be treated special.

  14. #14
    Sword of Telara Mr Malingers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bubulu View Post
    OP, you are the most biased poster ever, well most posters are biased.

    Your defensive dispel has no cooldown. While you throw HoTs around, you want to also dispel every DoTs? Your HoTs are healing all DoT damages and you don't want to take any damage at all?

    Plus, offensive dispel has cooldown, with all those bard buffs, HoTs, healing proc, I think it would be more fair if we can prioritize offensive dispel to target your main buffs and heals first, instead of dispelling all those trash buffs.

    Think logically before you made a biased post like this. A warden is already invincible and DoTs are just pathetic to your HoTs, don't know why you even bother dispelling.
    Pointing out the existence of a second problem doesn't mean there isn't still a first problem.
    In fact a better priority system for dispels would benefit both offensive and defensive dispels alike.
    Maybe he just wanted to steal our wire cutters. You ever think of that?

  15. #15
    Sword of Telara Mr Malingers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paikis View Post
    I've underlined the issues I have with your post. Plague Bolt is only a DPS loss if you've already got 5 stacks on the target, and people who have been hit by Grave Rot will generally be your next targets. Deathly Calling increases your damage by a fair amount, so pre-stacking them helps... also it annoys healers (Apparently, never been an issue for my cleric)
    Plague Bolt is always a dps loss over Void Bolt. The damage increase of DC does not make up for the damage and cast time difference of Plague Bolt. Especially when you have and instant cast alternative to put up DC without using Plague Bolt.
    Maybe he just wanted to steal our wire cutters. You ever think of that?

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