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Thread: Hey sc dps is so hi... Again!!!

  1. #1
    Shadowlander
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    Default Hey sc dps is so hi... Again!!!

    Hi just wanted to come up with a classy title to draw everyones attention to read this since i was late to the other discussion.

    While it is easy to point the finger at mages for doing high dps, first off lets take a few factors into play here. Based on some names, of whom i know the people personally who posted in the last thread... um you guys arent even the top rogues in the world *****ing, ive seen rogue parses at 1300-1450 and they dont have to pop 30 plat worth of mana pots to do so.

    Yea to the scrubs out there actually cant pull at least 1200 dps as sc/ele, its because you have too much down time w/ channel elements, or went with archon spec to be lazy and have mana regen. Those who are focused on getting a raid fight down have mana pot rotations and arent cheap with it either.

    After cypher was taken out of the equation i was having consistent 1400+ attempts, i am very geared, and yea it does scale well with gear and additionally like old burning purpose, you wanna get every buff up possible b4 you use SD. That being said, 2 rogues were amongst our top 5 dpsers, only within 200-250 behind me, and guess what, they dont have to do nearly as much as i do to pull those numbers. And an even bigger kicker is, they are on the low side of what ive seen other rogues doing. So sc/ele's are the bad guy cause rogues/warriors cant get it right??

    I mean cmon guys, as soon as the patch hit all rogues cried cause they could no longer spam 1 button and be 300 dps above people with actual complex rotations. Then we heard that rogues simply arent competitive at all.... i beg to differ, it just took you a lil longer than people who play mages evidently took.

    Now again, i agree that a rogue should do more dps than a mage, simply because they bring little else to the table, other than dps. But that being said. the sc/ele class doesnt do much else either and in great guilds the gap is no where near as much as its being portrayed here.

    Anyways, stop crying, cause truthfully i do not want to have to roll a rogue and decimate you at your own class, cause then youll cry that i personally need to be nerfed.

  2. #2
    Sword of Telara
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    Something tells me you arent as good as you think you are.

    A lot of these elitist threads pop up from mages. Who, by sheer coincidence i'm sure, are regarded as being completely OP by, well, all the other callings.

    Good day sir.
    Last edited by Corebot; 04-24-2011 at 07:40 AM.

  3. #3
    Rift Disciple Mormoran's Avatar
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    I kinda agree with him you know. Lots of whinning from other classes about mages doing decent DPS. They complain that we offer too much, or that the DPS is too high, or that the healing is too much.

    In reality, it's just specific situations that make mages shine, and specific encounters, and most of the time, with very specific buffs and/or cooldowns. They don't see the big picture. They just see a mage who burns a ton of cooldowns, has a very optimized rotation, and gets lucky with a few crits, and come here as forum warriors crying nerf.

    Part of what happens here is that most of the time, people who like to play mages, like complex character who can be squeezed to the last drop of DPS and effectiveness, and a large portion of the whiners think they should be able to do the same by spamming their lolmacro.

    Now flame on.

  4. #4
    Shadowlander
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    Well to alleviate your concerns sir, I have been playing MMos since UO. Obviously the fundamentals of UO were extremely different than a EQ style platform game. I have been in top guilds in "world" rankings in WoW and DAOC. I joined the EQ club a little late because i was stuck on UO. In wow vanilla, i rolled a spriest, obviosuly anyone who even played wow back then knows spriests were not on the whole a great class to bring to raids. But some of you may remember while spriests cried about needing to be buffed back then, those of us who spared no expense in consumables also werent bottom of the dps meter either. 740 dps on vanilla patchwerk wasnt top dps, but by all means top 10 out of a 40 man raid with 25-28 dpsers so yea.

    I try to refrain from talking out of my ***, and moreover i dont sit on here and troll the forums all day, i heard of the previous thread on related subjects arrived a little late cause it was locked already, so i started this one. Let me say first off, if people redirected even half the energy they spend on here crying to maybe putting equal theorycrafting time into their toons, rather than reading about it on the forums, than maybe they too could be pulling those "insane" numbers.

    No, as i said, i dont live on these forums, so obviously at the drop of a hat cannot go find on a particular thread a post of x person doing y dps as Z class. However, i assure you that i am no liar and when i say i do my reserach for my guild for boss fights or comparing numbers to see what other classes should be doing, i really do.

    In my specific guild, on the plutonous fight, I was top dps at 1474 or something on the kill attempt, after cyphers obviously. 2nd was a rogue in the 12xx range, followed by a mage, then another rogue, then a mage and a warrior. Not every mage in my guild was pulling ******ed high numbers, and that is something i rectify within my guild to optimize dps. The rogue that was behind me, just two weeks ago complianed he was the victim of the nerf bat and debated quitting the game as a result, clearly not someone who adapted and overcame too quickly, while he is a great dude and a good friend, i think there may be even more room for improvement based on parses ive seen of other top rogues in the world.

    7 weeks ago when mages werent neccessarily the "best" and we all were starting to work on duke for the first time, a few mages werestill pulling 750-850 dps as necrolock, let alone the archon gimpness. I was happy as hell to come on here and see soooo many bad mages complaining they couldnt do crap for dps cause i knew that because soo many failed, good players like me would get buffed and go from being competitive to being on top, as we debatebly are atm.

    Point is, top classes arent dictated by the good players, they are dictated by the casuals who constantly complain. On the rogue forums some rogues even now are still crying they need buffed. Some warriors are experimenting with leather gear to overcome their situation. And hopefully by now most clerics have leraned who Veroprodigy is and are trying to follow his leads on what classes are effective. But at the end of the day, the meters arent "horribly" gapped between the 4 classes.

    However now the situation that mediocre/casual players are gonna dictate is rogues/warriors getting buffed to be brought into alignment which will negate the difficulty of all raid content or mages will be nerfed to be brought unto alignment with the sub par rogues complaining. In my guild, we would not kill plutonous under those circumstances cause the 2-3 mages pulling 1200+ dps mad up for the 3-4 rogues/warriors who were pulling 750-900. And i feel that 90% of the people on this forum, fall into that 750-900 category.

    So continue to flame, it bothers me not, people with an iq above 27 know what i mean, the rest of you can farm gear and kill stuff months behind others when its irrelevant content.

  5. #5
    Shadowlander
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascensionx View Post
    Hi just wanted to come up with a classy title to draw everyones attention to read this since i was late to the other discussion.

    While it is easy to point the finger at mages for doing high dps, first off lets take a few factors into play here. Based on some names, of whom i know the people personally who posted in the last thread... um you guys arent even the top rogues in the world *****ing, ive seen rogue parses at 1300-1450 and they dont have to pop 30 plat worth of mana pots to do so.

    Yea to the scrubs out there actually cant pull at least 1200 dps as sc/ele, its because you have too much down time w/ channel elements, or went with archon spec to be lazy and have mana regen. Those who are focused on getting a raid fight down have mana pot rotations and arent cheap with it either.

    After cypher was taken out of the equation i was having consistent 1400+ attempts, i am very geared, and yea it does scale well with gear and additionally like old burning purpose, you wanna get every buff up possible b4 you use SD. That being said, 2 rogues were amongst our top 5 dpsers, only within 200-250 behind me, and guess what, they dont have to do nearly as much as i do to pull those numbers. And an even bigger kicker is, they are on the low side of what ive seen other rogues doing. So sc/ele's are the bad guy cause rogues/warriors cant get it right??

    I mean cmon guys, as soon as the patch hit all rogues cried cause they could no longer spam 1 button and be 300 dps above people with actual complex rotations. Then we heard that rogues simply arent competitive at all.... i beg to differ, it just took you a lil longer than people who play mages evidently took.

    Now again, i agree that a rogue should do more dps than a mage, simply because they bring little else to the table, other than dps. But that being said. the sc/ele class doesnt do much else either and in great guilds the gap is no where near as much as its being portrayed here.

    Anyways, stop crying, cause truthfully i do not want to have to roll a rogue and decimate you at your own class, cause then youll cry that i personally need to be nerfed.

    one imagines you play rift with some weird bondage like apperature to support the weight of your head
    Strumming your mum with my banjo since 09

  6. #6
    Rift Chaser
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    Actually I think you're a bit off target. Casual players generally don't give a damn about DPS and parses. The people who are complaining the most are the Min / Maxers that refuse to understand that they cannot be top DPS in every single situation. And that DPS isn't the solution to every problem

  7. #7
    Shadowlander
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shabbz View Post
    one imagines you play rift with some weird bondage like apperature to support the weight of your head
    After reading your other posts, one imagines you have cerebral palsy

  8. #8
    Shadowlander
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    The only reason SC's top out ST DPS stupidly well is due to Static Discharge, where it assigned all the damage done to the SC as opposed to every other type of ability that gives party members a buff assigns it to them. (i.e. archon or dom dam shield etc) So once you strip out the SC static discharge they do good still but not OP as some would like to think, it is clearly just this one ability is attributed damage incorrectly.

  9. #9
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    So basically you are 1/5th ahead from your rogues who are fully melee I guess. Hmm, sounds like op/broken calling to me.

  10. #10
    Plane Walker
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    I'm sorry, all I got out of that absolute wall of TL;DR was something akin to "Hey look at me, I think I'm cool or special because I think I'm better at a game than you".

    I have been in top guilds in "world" rankings in WoW and DAOC
    Protip: Anyone that you ever see who feels the need to start out something they say with something like this is not worth paying attention to.
    ~ Cameela ~
    50 Rogue - Rank 40
    Officer of <Dark Horizon>
    GP 4/4 - DH 4/4 - GSB 5/5 - RoS 4/4 - RotP 4/4 - HK 11/11 - ID 4/8
    Byriel

  11. #11
    Shadowlander
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    cool glad i didnt start off with that, but was a repsonse to, well was probably you on a different account trolling the first time.

    But yea, after reading even more posts about it, seems to be everyone would be fine with it, if the damage was assigned to all the individuals who recieved the buff. The only problem then would be, rogues/warriros would have a false sense of doing decent and they would have the inflated numbers and believe they didnt have to correct anything.

    Also to address one other thing, the parses you see of the few pulling 1600-1700 dps, if you look at "total swings" most have 260-280 hits, which means they stacked the raid specifically for one person to do that amount of damage, you dont see any others in the same raid doing equal numbers. We spread it out so you had more consistenty amongst all the mages numbers so naturally it didnt appear is if one person exclusively was "abusing" it.

  12. #12
    Plane Touched
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    I just thought that I'd my 2c in. A lot of people were glad that Saboteurs got a nerf (or fix, depends on your POV). Rogues are no longer pigeonholed into playing either a Bard for support or a Saboteur for DPS; we finally get to roll something BESIDES what must be the most mind-numbingly simplistic Soul in all of Rift. And that's putting it lightly.

    Now, on to the topic at hand. If you're really the top-tier player that you so profess, you should be logical enough in your thinking to realize when certain classes need tweaking. Instead, you seem content to scream at the community from your pulpit insisting that the Rift community is rife with untalented and dense players. Get over yourself. We're not in UO, EQ, DAoC, AOC, WoW, GW, War, Aion, and whatever other acronym you'd like to spew out there. We're playing Rift. All your MMO accomplishments in those other games are moot; if this were not the case, they'd be transferable into Rift. But they're not. So move on.

    The only way to stop the "senseless" nerfs that you are so adamantly against from occurring is to educate people. Provide corrected parses paired with rotations, general strategies and builds. If you'd rather keep all this information to yourself as some kind of twisted "trade secret", then you deserve to get nerfed into the ground for your greed. You should be prouder that your hard work can benefit hundreds of players, instead of you being a self-professed member of the Rift elite.

    And to quote one of my favourite lines of all time, and a perfect metaphor for certain posts: "...it is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing."

    Good day to you, sir.
    Last edited by Magipants; 04-24-2011 at 09:43 AM.

  13. #13
    Shadowlander
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magipants View Post
    I just thought that I'd my 2c in. A lot of people were glad that Saboteurs got a nerf (or fix, depends on your POV). Rogues are no longer pigeonholed into playing either a Bard for support or a Saboteur for DPS; we finally get to roll something BESIDES what must be the most mind-numbingly simplistic Soul in all of Rift. And that's putting it lightly.

    Now, on to the topic at hand. If you're really the top-tier player that you so profess, you should be logical enough in your thinking to realize when certain classes need tweaking. Instead, you seem content to scream at the community from your pulpit insisting that the Rift community is rife with untalented and dense players. Get over yourself. We're not in UO, EQ, DAoC, AOC, WoW, GW, War, Aion, and whatever other acronym you'd like to spew out there. We're playing Rift. All your MMO accomplishments in those other games are moot; if this were not the case, they'd be transferable into Rift. But they're not. So move on.

    The only way to stop the "senseless" nerfs that you are so adamantly against from occurring is to educate people. Provide corrected parses paired with rotations, general strategies and builds. If you'd rather keep all this information to yourself as some kind of twisted "trade secret", then you deserve to get nerfed into the ground for your greed. You should be prouder that your hard work can benefit hundreds of players, instead of you being a self-professed member of the Rift elite.

    And to quote one of my favourite lines of all time, and a perfect metaphor for certain posts: "...it is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing."

    Good day to you, sir.
    You are one of the ones that are glad their arent in game damage meters yet arent you? You seem to have that epic personality "if the boss dies, no one did anything wrong" while clearly being the catalyst as to why it took your guild so long to get something accomplished.

    Not trying to bash the entire community, just those who were evidently part of the 20 some page locked thread which offered little feedback, simply "this one time in raid camp a mage outdpsed me, i do not know how to do better so trion make me be like that mage"
    Last edited by Ascensionx; 04-24-2011 at 09:49 AM.

  14. #14
    Plane Touched
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascensionx View Post
    You are one of the ones that are glad their arent in game damage meters yet arent you? You seem to have that epic personality "if the boss dies, no one did anything wrong" while clearly being the catalyst as to why it took your guild so long to get something accomplished.

    Not trying to bash the entire community, just those who were evidently part of the 20 some page locked thread which offered little feedback, simply "this one time in raid camp a mage outdpsed me, i do not know how to do better so trion make me be like that mage"
    I'll be completely honest with you; I do have a few problems with in-game damage meters, and damage meters in general. They encourage baseless elitism, mob mentality, discrimination against lesser-geared and inexperienced players, and fosters a lemming-like FotM mentality instead of creativity. That said, the damage meters provide reams of data when it comes to rotation and build optimization, a greater understanding of game mechanics, and some hearty competition.

    You're also not understanding the point I was making. The reason why people are so intent on complaining about their DPS output is because a lot of the "elite" (and I use that term exceedingly loosely) players are hesitant about sharing their Builds, Rotations, and Parses because, God forbid, the Commnity may benefit from another's hard work. I really don't care if you pulled X amount of damage over Y seconds and came in Z place in your raid's DPS spectrum. Either follow it up with evidence and a constructive post, or keep quiet and stay in obscurity.

    Finally, there is nothing with improving your performance in any aspect of life, in-game activities included. One should always strive to perform at their peak capacity in order to get the most out of an experience. But the trick is knowing where to draw the line between Fun and Occupation. A video game is not an occupation, contrary to what several Korean Starcraft players seem to think. It is meant as a diversion, an escape from day-to-day activities where you can socialize with friends. The second you turn it into another job, as you seem to be doing with all this talk about damage parses, I lose immense respect. Perspective is key.

  15. #15
    Ascendant TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    I agree but I think it's crap that mages should have to dump so much money on mana pots just to stay competitive with other dps classes.
    Red ball + fulminate + really craptacular dom/pyro spec trying to hard cast transmog and pray your spell lands before some squirrel punching moron eats your controlled opp proc = +1 board warrior keeping mages from being realistically balanced in PVE or PVP. 1.0-1.2's best combo in the game. RIP FOTM Pyro rollers

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