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Thread: Why Paragon and Bladedancers are bad concepts

  1. #1
    Ascendant Talamare's Avatar
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    Default Why Paragon and Bladedancers are bad concepts

    They are based on the theme "I want to be an Avoidance Tank and Still DPS"

    It really doesnt work, neither in PvE nor PvP

    The only time it does work is when you are 1vs1 physical damage monsters, and honestly

    EVERYONE CAN DO THAT, without gimping themselves
    Last edited by Talamare; 04-23-2011 at 02:34 PM.
    It's not a damage meters fault you can't hit a certain dps and others similar to you can, it's the fault of your bad gear, bad spec, or bad rotation. So stop getting mad at the meters and invest some time into not being bad.

    DPS Mathcraft - How damage works
    DPS Mathcraft - STR vs DEX
    DPS Mathcraft - Armor
    Warrior DPS Calculator *UPDATED* v0.2
    Paragon Rebalancing Suggestion

  2. #2
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talamare View Post
    The only time it does work is when you are 1vs1 physical damage monsters, and honestly

    EVERYONE CAN DO THAT, without gimping themselves
    I'm a bladedancer and I'd like to prove you wrong.

    http://img853.imageshack.us/i/20110422160854.jpg/

    This is me killing 7 or 8 monsters, all at once with an outcome of 100% hp! Thats what bladedancers are for
    Last edited by IIvaan; 04-23-2011 at 02:47 PM.

  3. #3
    Rift Chaser
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talamare View Post
    They are based on the theme "I want to be an Avoidance Tank and Still DPS"

    It really doesnt work, neither in PvE nor PvP

    The only time it does work is when you are 1vs1 physical damage monsters, and honestly

    EVERYONE CAN DO THAT, without gimping themselves
    You can spec a Paragon with up 38 points with out taking a parry related feat meaning Paragon suck for entirely different reason.

  4. #4
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    main problem here is focus and hit on pve gear, it should be a pve-only stat but actually completely delete the aivodance capabilities of these two classes in pvp.
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  5. #5
    Ascendant Talamare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IIvaan View Post
    I'm a bladedancer and I'd like to prove you wrong.

    http://img853.imageshack.us/i/20110422160854.jpg/

    This is me killing 7 or 8 monsters, all at once with an outcome of 100% hp! Thats what bladedancers are for
    You proved me right...

    Thats all you can do effectively
    It's not a damage meters fault you can't hit a certain dps and others similar to you can, it's the fault of your bad gear, bad spec, or bad rotation. So stop getting mad at the meters and invest some time into not being bad.

    DPS Mathcraft - How damage works
    DPS Mathcraft - STR vs DEX
    DPS Mathcraft - Armor
    Warrior DPS Calculator *UPDATED* v0.2
    Paragon Rebalancing Suggestion

  6. #6
    Plane Touched
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    For solo normal mobs, paragon/BD is doing great.
    Dungeons? Not so much. In T1, elite mobs normally 2-3 hits you. T2 and Raid, 1 hit K.O on rogues, 2 for warriors. Your dodge/parry buffs is nearly useless against them because they just need to land 1-2 hit on you then done.
    PvP? You cannot dodge magic, DoTs. There are also alot of skills ignore dodge/parry/block. Therefore, unless you 1v1 with pure physical dmg user, your dodge/parry buffs is, again, nearly useless.

  7. #7
    Prophet of Telara NatashaK's Avatar
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    I like the paragon concept. I like how the dual wield feels. But I just dont find it effective.

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    Rift Disciple Larthalalyss's Avatar
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    Um... Thought these two souls were designed with dps/support in mind, not tanking. Sure they have abilities that complement tanking, but are themselves not really tanky. They can short term tank, but at the end of the day that is not what they were designed for.


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    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larthalalyss View Post
    Um... Thought these two souls were designed with dps/support in mind, not tanking. Sure they have abilities that complement tanking, but are themselves not really tanky. They can short term tank, but at the end of the day that is not what they were designed for.
    while neither paragon nor BD have much in the way of support at all, neither are tank specs.

    And Paragon is much less reliant on parry/dodge for their dps than BD, para only has 2 abilities (iirc) that are actually based off parrying or dodging?

    BD, a flat minimum of 10% of their dps and half their combo point building is reliant on it. However, all they would need is a buff they could cast on the tank that let them dodge when the tank did and they'd be golden.

    In pvp, while bd is fairly sexy vs melee due to side steps, they lack any other defensive cooldowns, which hurts them substantially. If they had any damage redux, they'd be much better off imo.

  10. #10
    Ascendant Talamare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larthalalyss View Post
    Um... Thought these two souls were designed with dps/support in mind, not tanking. Sure they have abilities that complement tanking, but are themselves not really tanky. They can short term tank, but at the end of the day that is not what they were designed for.
    Thats it exactly it
    They arent true tanks, but have a lot of tank abilities

    Like you said, short term tanks.

    The concept doesnt work well in this type of game except for 1vs1 against physical players or non-dungeon PvE. 2 insignificant parts of the game
    Last edited by Talamare; 04-23-2011 at 10:16 PM.
    It's not a damage meters fault you can't hit a certain dps and others similar to you can, it's the fault of your bad gear, bad spec, or bad rotation. So stop getting mad at the meters and invest some time into not being bad.

    DPS Mathcraft - How damage works
    DPS Mathcraft - STR vs DEX
    DPS Mathcraft - Armor
    Warrior DPS Calculator *UPDATED* v0.2
    Paragon Rebalancing Suggestion

  11. #11
    Plane Touched urvine's Avatar
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    They're like dex fighters. I'm not sure what you mean by they don't work in pvp. On my warlord/paragon/riftblade anything that doesn't cast spells doesn't stand a chance against me. between 2 disarms, 10 seconds of over 100% parry chance, 3 reflected attacks , and 2 roots. I end most pvp encounters at full health. Casters are my only weakness, as I can't CC lock and none of my avoidance works against them, I'm just left hoping my DPS bests theirs. but thats 2 of the 4 callings I have on lockdown, and still have a chance against 1 other. I can never kill clerics unless they're just bad players or I significantly outgear them.

    PvP against me is alot like sex with me. Its quick, unexpected and ends with only me satisfied.

  12. #12
    Rift Disciple kashaun's Avatar
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    Much of the bladedancer soul simply doesn't make sense post concept. The support part of it would be okay except even that greatly depends on weapons. If you're in a bad group targets will live long enough to get 5 combo points and a finisher, but you're in a bad group and it doesn't matter. If you're in a good group targets are dying often before the finisher. If you get disarmed, you can't disarm back because dissemble requires a melee weapon. If BD focus is supposed to be melee/physical, then that should be the strength and not the hurdle.
    Last edited by kashaun; 04-23-2011 at 10:51 PM.
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  13. #13
    Rift Disciple
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    Those 2 souls look like they are specialised for players who would like to be able to counter other mdps the same way void counters magic. It's a valid build albeit the way DW works here is a bit gimp.

    No it's not as powerful as a champ simply just killing your opponent, but as an mdps counter, it isn't bad.

  14. #14
    Telaran
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    paragon is crazy hard to use. it best end game with champion. but duel weld can be very tricky you need to time everything and if the enemy a caster or ranged u kinda screwed.
    basicly never go pure always mix.

  15. #15
    Shadowlander
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    In my NB/BD/sin build I have side steps and whatever the 80% DR in Nightblade is called. Been able to use them a couple of times to keep a boss distracted while the tank was brezzed, or for a last-second burn on a low hp boss.

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