+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 16

Thread: The Low Damage of Paragon

  1. #1
    Soulwalker
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    1

    Default The Low Damage of Paragon

    Hi guys,
    dont You think, that the Paragon class is dealing damn low damage? I mean, the damage of the abilities is depending on the main- hand weapon damage. I think thats very stupid, because then its relly better, if u go with a two- handed weapon. THe Paragon is a class wich fights with 2 weapons right?
    So WHY the damage dont depend on the BOTH weapons?? o.O Paragon is the worsest class in the whole game and i think u should fix it.
    PLEASE fix it ;)

  2. #2
    Rift Disciple
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    161

    Default

    wait... arent paragons one of the strong warrior souls right now? also dont rogues suffer from this aswell?

  3. #3
    RIFT Guide Writer Hokonoso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    4,692

    Default

    he just summed up all the melee rogues problems while spitting drivel about paragons... such irony.
    Useful Rogue guides since I don't want to answer 50 billion questions anymore:
    Marksman, Ranger, Nightblade, Blink'Blade, Asstalker, Assdancer, and finally The Hoko Spec™
    Hoko, teaching noobs the way of rogue pve until 12/20/11.

  4. #4
    Rift Disciple
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    125

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hokonoso View Post
    he just summed up all the melee rogues problems while spitting drivel about paragons... such irony.
    Paragons do not do low damage.

    You're right. The problem is with abilities that take main hand damage as a base for damage. It makes a champion using 2hander do more with paragon abilities than paragons do with their specialisation even with bonuses (dual blades). They need to seriously look at this as it doesn't scale as well for dual wielding mdps (rogues included).

    Paragons right now do not do low damage. They can do quite good sustained damage. The dual wield mechanic and abilities need to be tweaked properly or overhauled.

  5. #5
    Ascendant
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    2,527

    Default

    It will probably eventually lead into weapon normalization. This imo reduces strategical weapon selections.

    eg... I use some blue slow main hander with high per damage over say a similar purple with better dps but at faster swing and lower damage. Normalization basically makes it so you should always go with the highest DPS ALWAYS unless the stats/procs are THAT good.

    And me too thinks its funny after reading OPs mumbling... At least warriors has an option to use 2 handers.

    Oh and if you do play both classes extensively you will notice that warriors moves are ultra scalable you know something like 140% weapon damage + xxx while 90% (or is it 100%?) of the rogue skills gets Weapon + xxx. When you factor in the ability to use 2 handers the 140% multiplier is simply THAT MUCH sexier easily doubles the per GCD ability dmg.

    If you think Paragon has it rough then the entire rogue line is way in the hole. Besides isnt RB/Para one of the highest DPS soul combo in the entire game of Rift? (according to the countless parses and you dont even have to gimp yourself for needing a pet like BM). Oh and I am pretty sure the famous RB/Para build that also outputs better ranged DPS than immobile MM on a pedestal.

    9/10
    Last edited by WarUltima; 04-20-2011 at 06:39 PM.

  6. #6
    Rift Disciple Jiji's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    107

    Default

    does anyone even use dual strike? this skill has an induction i swear. its takes so long to get off, you might as well be swinging a two hander. the parry is nice and the armor pen is nice dont get me wrong, but its a build with long cool downs...(the melee deflect and run speed skills in the tree)...but if i chose this build as my main soul id want a little bit more magic defense or a cut on the induction skills and a cut on the cooldowns...also the low damage compared to having a two hander doesnt make much sense to me and ultimately forced me to spec into champ for my melee dps...in terms of balance for melee dps, i dont think paragon is up to par with champ....which is dissapointing because i really like the paragon and i hope one day they will bring it up to "speed"

  7. #7
    Telaran
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    59

    Default

    I find paragon does decent damage provided he gets enough procs. 1v1 I seem to beat champions and beastmasters pretty consistently, but I don't have the burst/direct damage of other souls, which I'm fine with - just a different playstyle.
    Last edited by Kresselack; 04-20-2011 at 10:59 PM.

  8. #8
    Ascendant Talamare's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    1,939

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by WarUltima View Post
    It will probably eventually lead into weapon normalization. This imo reduces strategical weapon selections.
    ITS ALREADY NORMALIZED! lol
    It's not a damage meters fault you can't hit a certain dps and others similar to you can, it's the fault of your bad gear, bad spec, or bad rotation. So stop getting mad at the meters and invest some time into not being bad.

    DPS Mathcraft - How damage works
    DPS Mathcraft - STR vs DEX
    DPS Mathcraft - Armor
    Warrior DPS Calculator *UPDATED* v0.2
    Paragon Rebalancing Suggestion

  9. #9
    Sword of Telara
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    760

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by WarUltima View Post
    blah blah blah

    Oh and if you do play both classes extensively you will notice that warriors moves are ultra scalable you know something like 140% weapon damage + xxx while 90% (or is it 100%?) of the rogue skills gets Weapon + xxx. When you factor in the ability to use 2 handers the 140% multiplier is simply THAT MUCH sexier easily doubles the per GCD ability dmg.

    Blah blah blah

    9/10
    Rogues get an attack every second.
    Warriors get an attack every one and a half seconds.

    1 / 1.5 = 0.6666_
    0.6666_ * 1.4 = 0.9333_

    So even if EVERY warrior ability scaled at 1.4 * weapon damage they would still be worse off (only 93%) than a rogue.

    But they don't. Most warrior abilities scale at 1.2 with a few on longer cool-downs that scale at 1.4 so it's pretty safe to say warrior damage scales worse than rogue damage so while warrior initial damage is set at a higher base point this is just compensating because rogues get better scaling from itemisation.

    I'll give you a 2/10 for maths there.

  10. #10
    Ascendant Talamare's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    1,939

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Xandarth View Post
    Rogues get an attack every second.
    Warriors get an attack every one and a half seconds.

    1 / 1.5 = 0.6666_
    0.6666_ * 1.4 = 0.9333_

    So even if EVERY warrior ability scaled at 1.4 * weapon damage they would still be worse off (only 93%) than a rogue.

    But they don't. Most warrior abilities scale at 1.2 with a few on longer cool-downs that scale at 1.4 so it's pretty safe to say warrior damage scales worse than rogue damage so while warrior initial damage is set at a higher base point this is just compensating because rogues get better scaling from itemisation.

    I'll give you a 2/10 for maths there.
    They scale at 1.0, with a few longer CDs being 1.2 and finishers being 1.4

    Also, you forgot attack speed in your math
    Last edited by Talamare; 04-20-2011 at 11:29 PM.
    It's not a damage meters fault you can't hit a certain dps and others similar to you can, it's the fault of your bad gear, bad spec, or bad rotation. So stop getting mad at the meters and invest some time into not being bad.

    DPS Mathcraft - How damage works
    DPS Mathcraft - STR vs DEX
    DPS Mathcraft - Armor
    Warrior DPS Calculator *UPDATED* v0.2
    Paragon Rebalancing Suggestion

  11. #11
    Sword of Telara
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    760

    Default

    Yeah I just put the worst case in there (140% on all attacks) to demonstrate exactly how wrong he was.

    CBF going in to detail when he is that wrong. ;)

  12. #12
    Ascendant
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    1,775

    Default

    Another reason to fire Gersh. Can't even do the math to make a dual wielder use the damage from 2 weapons.

    Fire him please.

  13. #13
    Rift Master
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    616

    Default

    Like has been said, all dual wielding in this game does pretty pathetic damage. Melee rogues get borked in the same way as paragons/etc. It only works with riftblade because riftblade damage doesn't scale anyway, you could be using a shield and do the same damage roughly.


    And yes, Paragon does low damage, to whoever said it doesn't. It honestly doesn't compare unless your critrate is AWFUL, in which case the 100% crit from Paired Strike on 2 follow ups will boost your damage by a lot. When you're running around with 40-50% or more crit in experts/raids you're far better off using 2 handers. Paragon tree is a secondary soul, anyone maining it does crap damage.

  14. #14
    Rift Disciple
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    125

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Xandarth View Post
    Rogues get an attack every second.
    Warriors get an attack every one and a half seconds.

    1 / 1.5 = 0.6666_
    0.6666_ * 1.4 = 0.9333_

    So even if EVERY warrior ability scaled at 1.4 * weapon damage they would still be worse off (only 93%) than a rogue.

    But they don't. Most warrior abilities scale at 1.2 with a few on longer cool-downs that scale at 1.4 so it's pretty safe to say warrior damage scales worse than rogue damage so while warrior initial damage is set at a higher base point this is just compensating because rogues get better scaling from itemisation.

    I'll give you a 2/10 for maths there.
    Mathematically it works out even, but it does cause a rift between the 2. The % bonus means he's going to be spiking a heck of a lot higher on more abilities than the rogue will; that's more meaningful in the short term without losing much if anything in the long term.

  15. #15
    Rift Chaser
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    326

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DoggyDog View Post
    Paragons do not do low damage.

    You're right. The problem is with abilities that take main hand damage as a base for damage. It makes a champion using 2hander do more with paragon abilities than paragons do with their specialisation even with bonuses (dual blades). They need to seriously look at this as it doesn't scale as well for dual wielding mdps (rogues included).

    Paragons right now do not do low damage. They can do quite good sustained damage. The dual wield mechanic and abilities need to be tweaked properly or overhauled.
    2 handers should hit harder per attack, that said paragon should have a bit higher dps , by attacking faster.

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts