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Thread: A workable fix for clerics in PvP without interfering with PvE balance at all.

  1. #1
    Plane Touched
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    Default A workable fix for clerics in PvP without interfering with PvE balance at all.

    First, mana drains are a PvP power, and as such, can be increased without effecting PvE.

    To balance "endless heal" clerics:

    FIRST, take mana drain up to a reasonable level for Dominator and Void Knight.

    NEXT, give clerics a mana recovery ranged attack power in their PvP soul that only works on other players. Alternatively, this power could increase mana regeneration rate every time it is used. This should be an easily acquired ability.


    Most importantly, this is a PvP fix for clerics that does not effect PvE balance at all.

  2. #2
    Ascendant
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    This game is *** backwards. Typically, casters have to manage their mana and melers can keep going and going. I run out of yellow or purple stuff long before a mage runs out of blue stuff. In fact, a good mage/cleric will never run out.

    Therefore team with most blue bars wins 90% of the time in a long fight. Which is totally backwards to the what normally makes sense.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by solarbear View Post
    This game is *** backwards. Typically, casters have to manage their mana and melers can keep going and going. I run out of yellow or purple stuff long before a mage runs out of blue stuff. In fact, a good mage/cleric will never run out.

    Therefore team with most blue bars wins 90% of the time in a long fight. Which is totally backwards to the what normally makes sense.
    Ya, I noticed this too. Kind of odd.

  4. #4
    Champion j3w3l's Avatar
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    i think they have actually hit a good median with mana drains now
    it takes a little while to be drained (which is better than a couple secs like before)

    while casters seem to have an endless supply of the blue stuff in battle, once its gone its gone and Mana regen is really slow, rogues and wariors however regain charge rather quickly in battle.

    Also we casters tend to carry around mana potions, maybe you should grab a few charge potions before battle
    So long rift, may your potential someday be realised

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by j3w3l View Post
    i think they have actually hit a good median with mana drains now
    it takes a little while to be drained (which is better than a couple secs like before)

    while casters seem to have an endless supply of the blue stuff in battle, once its gone its gone and Mana regen is really slow, rogues and wariors however regain charge rather quickly in battle.

    Also we casters tend to carry around mana potions, maybe you should grab a few charge potions before battle
    For all practical purposes, a mage can have limitless mana if he wants it. Sure, you CAN spec yourself to being able to run out of mana, but it takes work. The natural condition is Mage=Endless Mana

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by solarbear View Post
    This game is *** backwards. Typically, casters have to manage their mana and melers can keep going and going. I run out of yellow or purple stuff long before a mage runs out of blue stuff. In fact, a good mage/cleric will never run out.

    Therefore team with most blue bars wins 90% of the time in a long fight. Which is totally backwards to the what normally makes sense.
    Um, given the rate at which the yellow and purple bars recover, it's basically required that those bars don't last as long as mana bars lol. Otherwise any casters would go oom in like 10 seconds. :P

    Either way, most games don't restrict dps casters by mana anyway. Healers yes, dps not really.

  7. #7
    Ascendant BishopX's Avatar
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    this game was balanced around bad players, not good ones.

    im blunt but serious about that. if you use the spells that are easy to use and spam them you WILL run out of mana.
    i saw a cleric healing my instance and ran out of mana every other pull. not all heals are mana efficent.

  8. #8
    General of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by solarbear View Post
    This game is *** backwards. Typically, casters have to manage their mana and melers can keep going and going. I run out of yellow or purple stuff long before a mage runs out of blue stuff. In fact, a good mage/cleric will never run out.

    Therefore team with most blue bars wins 90% of the time in a long fight. Which is totally backwards to the what normally makes sense.
    ok, give me a blue bar that refill like youre yellow or purple one, im ready to trade!

    Conserving our mana, depending on the spec is something we must watch for, perhaps only archon have real infinite mana. Often in pvp i must drink and in pve as a Stormcaller in T2 dungeon, im a true mana hog. If you dont want to run out of it, you need to manage it, leave it unnatended and you will be in trouble. There is the fact too that when youre yellow/purple bar reach 0, you can still attack in 0.2sec, you can go infinately, not us.

    Ok anything with elementalist got infinite mana if you have charge but you lose precious second to get it back while doing nothing. Ok with pyromancer you got a buff for next 8 spell that cost only 5%, once used in combat you cant do it for 3min. Ok you can life:tap but you need to heal back, lifetapping in pvp is dangerous. If damaged in living veil i lose mana and will only take it back 2min later. I can drain my pet too but hey, he dont have that much hit point except for the knight... wich is never out because the rogue pet is more useful.

    So for the mages when the mana go down you need to work to keep it up except for the archon. Now for the cleric its another thing, most of the specs except for melee have trouble keeping their bar full when healing.

    So yeah, give me a auto refilling bar please, ill whack you to death infinitly

    @bishop : yeah warden 51 pts aoe heal that take 45% of youre mana
    Last edited by darkchicken; 04-20-2011 at 08:50 PM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkchicken View Post
    ok, give me a blue bar that refill like youre yellow or purple one, im ready to trade!

    Conserving our mana, depending on the spec is something we must watch for, perhaps only archon have real infinite mana. Often in pvp i must drink and in pve as a Stormcaller in T2 dungeon, im a true mana hog. If you dont want to run out of it, you need to manage it, leave it unnatended and you will be in trouble. There is the fact too that when youre yellow/purple bar reach 0, you can still attack in 0.2sec, you can go infinately, not us.

    Ok anything with elementalist got infinite mana if you have charge but you lose precious second to get it back while doing nothing. Ok with pyromancer you got a buff for next 8 spell that cost only 5%, once used in combat you cant do it for 3min. Ok you can life:tap but you need to heal back, lifetapping in pvp is dangerous. If damaged in living veil i lose mana and will only take it back 2min later. I can drain my pet too but hey, he dont have that much hit point except for the knight... wich is never out because the rogue pet is more useful.

    So for the mages when the mana go down you need to work to keep it up except for the archon. Now for the cleric its another thing, most of the specs except for melee have trouble keeping their bar full when healing.

    So yeah, give me a auto refilling bar please, ill whack you to death infinitly

    @bishop : yeah warden 51 pts aoe heal that take 45% of youre mana

    I'm out of yellow stuff by the end of 2 cycles. Which means I then suffer a drop in dps. How many cycles can you do before you see some sort of decrease on the account of blue stuff running out? 10... 20... who knows, because if your any good you've never run out. The fact a basic heal costs about 50 mana out of a pool of thousands is a total joke.

  10. #10
    Shield of Telara
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    Making one class overpowered to compete with other overpowered classes is not viable and not balancing

    Learn to CC, thats how you beat healers

  11. #11
    Rift Disciple Iros Styx's Avatar
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    Lol if that will happen I for sure will roll a melee class...

    Mana is a big baddy in this game for clerics, try rolling a cleric to level 50. Really, try... And then pvp with it, try it.

  12. #12
    Prophet of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by solarbear View Post
    I'm out of yellow stuff by the end of 2 cycles. Which means I then suffer a drop in dps. How many cycles can you do before you see some sort of decrease on the account of blue stuff running out? 10... 20... who knows, because if your any good you've never run out. The fact a basic heal costs about 50 mana out of a pool of thousands is a total joke.
    well. even if you need to stop for a breather now and then, warriors still put more dps or in worst case similar in raid sttings. that means that overall your damage vs time to recharge is about the same as the damage of mages. On the other hand the fact that you are balanced around having to regen resource and still have equal dps means that you have better burst (i am talking about 'general' mechanics, dont start the pyro burst talk pls since it is irrelevant to this converstaion).

    also, the 'basic' heal is 90mp. full pve t2.5 gear with full decked epic wis runes and stuff i have 5300mp as a cleric. That means that without regen i can cast ~60single target heals. So, with full decked wisdom in need 7-8secs of regen worth for 1 simple heal. But wait, this is our most mana efficient 3sec cast heal. In pve and pvp you obviously have to spam both instants, cds, aoe's and stuff like that...

    To give you an example of said abilities, a simple dispel costs 4%of my mana, the warden's 51point ability costs 45%of his mp. A simple aoe heal costs 320mp. and so on. That is, in my pvp gear with my 4k mp, almost 10%for a single aoe heal...

    so pls stop talking out of your *** and realize that mana efficiency, at least for clerics, is screwed up atm.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by solarbear View Post
    This game is *** backwards. Typically, casters have to manage their mana and melers can keep going and going. I run out of yellow or purple stuff long before a mage runs out of blue stuff. In fact, a good mage/cleric will never run out.
    .
    Lol that's not even remotely true. You don't know anything about the game ~_~
    Dancer/Yeah of Briarcliff

  14. #14
    Ascendant Eughe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solarbear View Post
    I have absolutely no idea what i am talking about.
    I agree

    /10chars

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Themistocles View Post
    First, mana drains are a PvP power, and as such, can be increased without effecting PvE.

    To balance "endless heal" clerics:

    FIRST, take mana drain up to a reasonable level for Dominator and Void Knight.

    NEXT, give clerics a mana recovery ranged attack power in their PvP soul that only works on other players. Alternatively, this power could increase mana regeneration rate every time it is used. This should be an easily acquired ability.


    Most importantly, this is a PvP fix for clerics that does not effect PvE balance at all.
    I'm wondering if people that complain about pvp even pvp at all. I had a warrior take me from full mana to nill in a very short amount of time. The ability was doing huge chunks of my mana, but I was also having to blow all my big heal spells (further using mana), because he was also doing huge chunks of my hp at a time.

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