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Thread: How chlormancy works (for non-mages and crappy mages)

  1. #1
    Telaran stavos's Avatar
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    Default How chlormancy works (for non-mages and crappy mages)

    The lack of understanding and stupid comments about what chloromancers can and cannot do has created a lot of needless bickering in these class forums, so I want to clear up some of the most common misconceptions about this class.

    1) Chloromancers can spec 32 points in that tree, and then put the rest in damage trees to increase their damage output.
    This is not true. Not true at all. Chloromancers do their healing using life based spells and abilities. This soul is the only soul for mages that has any life spells or life specific enhancing effects. The only improvements to chloromancer damage come from the most general talents that increase spell power as a whole, and those talents aren't exactly numerous. No other tree increases the damage of life based abilities. Because it is life based spells that chloromancers use to heal, the only way to improve their healing is to spec additional points into the chloromancer soul. Most chloromancers do this, in fact. Chloromancers are healers, and as a result, are focused on improving their healing. Yes, this healing is done through damage, but that's a byproduct, not the focus.

    2) Chloro/warlock is an overpowered build with great heals and great damage.
    False again, though this one is a bit more understandable. The OP build with great damage and great SELF healing is actually Warlock focus with a bit in chloro. The damage is not as bursty as pyro, but it IS good damage. However, that damage comes mostly from death based spells, and dots at that, which means the group healing granted by lifegiving veil is minimal. Really really small. Not good at all. However, the chloromancer soul as secondary does vastly improve the players own survivability by increasing the many healing effects that warlock spells give them which heal them and only them. This spec may be OP, but it's a warlock damage spec, not a chloro healing spec. In much the same sense that a bard can heal, it doesn't make them an effective healer. And yes, some chloro's opt to go into warlock to pick up instant cast spells and exchanging life for mana. That's hardly the end of the world, and definately not going to turn them in dps machines when trying to heal.

    3) Lifegiving veil heals equally no matter the source of damage.
    False false false false false false false and let me say again false. Lifegiving veil heals VERY little with any spell that is not life based. And life based spells are not high damage. This is the balance. If you want to high damage, you can't heal well because you're not using life spells. If you want to heal well, you can't do as much damage. As you spec deeper into chloromancer, you gain spells that enchance lifegiving veil and synthesis, allowing your life based spells to get more heal per point of damage, so that the lower overall dps of a chloromancer does not stop them from increasing their healing potential. But you can have 51 points in chloromancer, and lobbing fireballs is still going to heal like crap.

    4) Chloromancers are backup healers, like bards.
    In the case of ******ed players, true. And there are a lot of ******ed players that didn't read their tooltip. If you've got a chloromancer claiming he main heal, and you see him pull out a warlock pet and start casting DoTs, kick him out of your group. What is true is that you can spec some points into chloro with the majority of your points in something more damage oriented like pyro or stormcaller and do some "background" healing. But that healing is definately background, and sadly, it's how people think chloromancers main heal. No. In order to main heal, you have to use life based spells, and pick up important talents like sythesis, and and even pick up certain spells that are NOT base abilities, but require soul points, like the chloromancer big heal, nature's touch. That's over 20 points into the tree. So if you have a chloromancer with the majority of his points in that soul using life based spells almost exclusively with sythesis on the tank and the correct healing increasing skills picked out, you've got a great main healer. Keep in mind though, that this mage won't do mindblowing damage, and while the damage is nice, even at 51 points clerics still have more utility.

    5) Nature's touch is comparable to clerics "big heals."
    Nope, not at all. In terms of healing done, it's on par. It has to be. But here's something only chloromancers seem to appreciate. That big heal is on a cooldown. That's right, we can't spam it. We can work it into a rotation, we can save it for when we need it, but it's the longest cast time of any chloromancer spell, and it's on a cooldown. And even more, it's only a big heal for the ONE player the chloro put sythesis on. And sythesis is on a 45 second cooldown. So chloro's are incredibly restricted on their big heal. Thanks to cooldowns that no one appreciates, it's not anything like a cleric's big heal, which he can spam without thought of cooldown on whoever he wants, whenever he wants, as much as he wants.

    Those are the biggest misconceptions that come to mind, and I hope some of you can now refrain from looking like a moron by posting one of things as true. Now that's I've said that, I'll give you this as well. yes, Chloro's aoe healing is great. Yes, the damage they put out while healing is nice. It's also restrictive. Imagine you're a chloro healing someone in fang of regulos. Your carrier you're standing next to is about to die, your 2 actual direct heal spells are on cooldown, and there's no enemy close enough for you hit. Well, where a cleric would've saved them, a chloromancer can't. No target = no healing. That's a pretty big restriction. Think about it.

    They're a good healing class. Great even. But they're not absurdly OP, and hopefully now you guys can see why.

  2. #2
    Rift Disciple
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    point one is incorrect unless your completely heal focused, we've had a 32 chloro main heal every dungeon since we hit 50 with a necro pet for extra dps.

    chloro does do life damage, and is the only mage tree that does, but there are many buffs in the other trees that increase this giving you better dps and healing (not necro obviously).

    a very popular one is chloro/archon, you can get a great many of the archon auras group & self buffs with your 32 in chloro and your effectiveness is arguably greater healing with this than going full chloro etc.
    Last edited by Derath; 04-18-2011 at 01:18 PM.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derath View Post
    point one is incorrect unless your completely heal focused, we've had a 32 chloro main heal every dungeon since we hit 50 with a necro pet for extra dps.

    chloro does do life damage, and is the only mage tree that does, but there are many buffs in the other trees that increase this giving you better dps and healing (not necro obviously).
    Actually the chloro/necro hybrid is thoroughly viable as a healer build. Necromancer gives you two direct spammable heals, both a HoT (Blood Binding) and a direct 2-sec cast heal (Life Shift), which both do respectable amounts, but deals damage to you. Fortunately, with essence link on the mobs/boss, your pet has a constant stream of heals going onto you, which allows the chloromancer to do direct heals. On top of that, the chloro/necro ultimately does more damage than the "cookie-cutter" chlorolock, since the pet pulls an easy 200+ with half your points sunk into necromancer.

    I have both this spec and the chlorolock one, and I prefer the necro one on a lot of fights. Both my damage and heals are respectable in both specs, but chlorolock ultimately dishes out bigger/more heals, whereas chloro/necro can front a bit more damage and have a bit more control over direct heals when needed. I can usually keep my HoTs up pretty regularly, at least on the tank, without breaking my rotation too heavily.

    And @ OP: The first point isn't entirely true, since speccing half your points into warlock nets you 20% more damage (23% if you're tossing neddra's torture in your rotation), which translates directly into heals, as well as 5% more crit, more AoE options, etcs. This ultimately DOES increase their damage output, but of course while casting warlock AoE spells, reduces their healing output. If they're main-healing a dungeon, expect them to cast nothing but their chloro rotations, which yes, does put a damper on their damage output.
    Last edited by Uhgii; 04-18-2011 at 01:22 PM.

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    Rift Disciple
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    i didn't say you couldn't heal as necro chloro :P

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    Sword of Telara Mr Malingers's Avatar
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    Grats on a know it all condescending post in which you post false information in your very first point.
    Maybe he just wanted to steal our wire cutters. You ever think of that?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derath View Post
    i didn't say you couldn't heal as necro chloro :P
    Oh! I'm sorry, I didn't intend to say that against you or anything, I'm not denying that you knew that. Was just clarifying for those folks who would read that, and think "why on earth would they go chloro/necro?" that it is an incredibly viable build. =)

  7. #7
    Telaran TiNk3R's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stavos View Post
    The lack of understanding and stupid comments about what chloromancers can and cannot do has created a lot of needless bickering in these class forums, so I want to clear up some of the most common misconceptions about this class.
    You should take your own advice, and get off your high horse.

  8. #8
    Shield of Telara Cabreon's Avatar
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    I play a 34chloro/32 lock and I have yet to see any other chloromancer build besides chloro/archon come close to my dps/hps even clerics shudder. Nature's touch can heal up to 7k hp easy. Entropic Veil is what makes us chloro's awesome. We either add passive spell damage/ spell crit buffs (warlock) or we use self buffing auras (Archon).

    I have found that a chloro/archon will destroy a chloro lock in dps, hps, bigger heals hands down. This however takes a little more skill than the passive chloro/lock.

    I have only seen one big cleric heal and it heals for roughly 5k. It can not compare to Nature's touch. However, since their heal can be casted on anybody makes it better.

    (Synth Dancing helps you maintain specific people.) This only works if you have more than 1 chloro in the group and can keep the main aggro handler synthesized.

  9. #9
    Telaran
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    As others have said point 1 is wrong, speccing 32 points in and then going warlock for +20% damage on all spells and the other buffs or 31 pt archon for +16% damage on all spells and a whole heap of other buffs is precisely allocating the other points to increase damage output.

    That said, increasing damage output is how we improve our healing, there isn't that much more freedom than having to go 51 points in a cleric soul to maximise healing. The idea that you can go 32 pts chloro and whatever you want is the misconception, there are probably 4ish common general specs to heal with as a chloro (2 of which seem to be consensus leaders) which as far as I can tell isn't that different from the number of healing cleric variations people think are viable.

    Regarding point 2 I would say chloro warlock is a build with great heals and handy damage. And I am talking about the main healing 32/31 + change build, not the survivability 'Lock/chloro. At the begining of running tier 1 experts my boss ST dps output was about half what the dps people were managing. I don't know how that scales as people gear up and maybe the dps people I was running with could have managed higher outputs, but it's still handy.

    Point 3, yes.

    Point 4 is overall true but you have a number of mistakes mentioned, for example as other posters have pointed out people do use chloro/necro builds for the extra direct heals, which would cause them to have a necro pet, and maybe a heal isn't necessary at a given point so they put a dot up with a casting slot between nature's touch to help out the dps a bit. Also, from memory nature's touch is 16 points into the chloro tree, not 20+.

    Point 5 is, well, deceptive. Natures touch heals more than the spammable big cleric heals. Although there is a cooldown it is only 6s, casting 1 instant and one quick spell between NTs is not exactly an onerous restriction. Clerics complain all the time about feeling pointless when I have my chain NT instant vilespores NT etc going. I'm pretty sure at 2.5s instead of 3s NT has a shorter cast time than the big purifier spammable heal too, faster still with the archon build.

    The point about not being able to switch synth targets is very true, and it can cause a dps type to die where a cleric could have saved them. It is worth acknowledgeing this which is one of the drawbacks we live with in exchange for being able to do damage as well, just don't muddle it in with mistaken claims NT isn't comparable to cleric big heals.

  10. #10
    Telaran
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    I really tried to give that post a chance - but when I read


    and you see him pull out a warlock pet
    (emphasis on warlock is mine)


    I had to stop reading right there.
    A slip like that just lends the impression that all the supposed points are off.

    Good intent, but not ready for Prime Time.
    Last edited by Daozen; 04-18-2011 at 05:43 PM.

  11. #11
    General of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daozen View Post
    (emphasis on warlock is mine)
    Speaking of Warlock Pets ... how about this?

  12. #12
    Sword of Telara Atreiu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Treras View Post
    Speaking of Warlock Pets ... how about this?
    HAHA

    <Anotherguy>
    Rogue - cloudbourne
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    Please delete this thread.

  14. #14
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    Just for the record clerics big heal is a 3s CD, gets cut in half if you crit, and puts either a hot or a shield on the target, depending which one you Spec into. Chloro can tank trash fine, but goodluck on tier2 unless your party is overgeared.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerbearr View Post
    Just for the record clerics big heal is a 3s CD, gets cut in half if you crit, and puts either a hot or a shield on the target, depending which one you Spec into. Chloro can tank trash fine, but goodluck on tier2 unless your party is overgeared.
    Good info for the OP followed by a nuffnuff comment.

    I could heal the old Scarn fight as a chloro with bard support. We were all geared in T1's, the tank had 2 T2 pieces on him, we were not fully decked out in runes/running any consumable buffs.

    I'd like to see a Cleric do that.

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