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Thread: Buffs ... Are Broken

  1. #1
    Shield of Telara
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    Default Buffs ... Are Broken

    First, let me explain the title.

    1. There are not enough unique buffs. Every class buffs the same stats, and these buffs do not stack
    2. Some classes (Mage and Rogue) provide better buffs for the same stats, thus making the other class buffs obsolete

    What I would change on the buffs to provide better utility from all of the classes


    Beastmaster
    -Bond of Might : Increases Attack and Spell Power by 20% (scaling to 25% with tree talents)
    -Bond of Feline Grace : Increases Dodge and Parry chances by 10% (scaling to 15% with tree talents)
    -Bond of Vigor : Increases Power, Energy, and Mana regeneration rates by 10% (scaling to 15% with tree talents)

    Warlord
    -Aspect of the Fallen Hero : Decreases all Physical Damage taken by 5%
    -Aspect of the Elements : Decreases all non-Physical damage taken by 5%
    -Calls stack with all other abilities
    -Commands have the Weariness reduced to 1 minute and durations increased to 20/40/60 seconds
    --Weariness is given AFTER the buff fades, or is a 2 minute duration starting when the buff lands initially



    Bard
    -Fanfare of Vigor : Increases damage of Physical abilities by 10% (scaling to 15% with tree talents)
    -Anthem of Glory : Reduces cooldowns by 10% (scaling to 15% with tree talents)
    -Anthem of Competence : Stays the same
    -Fanfare of Power : Increases damage of non-Physical abilities by 10% (scaling to 15% with tree talents)
    -Anthem of Defiance : Increases base damage/healing of abilities by 5% (scaling to 10% with tree talents)
    -Anthem of Fervor : Stays the same
    -Fanfare of Knowledge : Increases Melee and Critical Chances by 10% (scaling to 15% with tree talents)



    Archon
    -Abilities stay the same, but stack with all others. Durations reduced slightly to compensate for stacking

    Chloromancer
    -Living Energy : Stays the same, stacking remains the same (i.e. does not stack with abilities of the same kind)



    Shaman
    -All stay the same
    -Receives additional (Courage) buffs to Intelligence and Endurance and may use 2 Courages together
    Now, these numbers are just random ones I pulled from thin air and the buffs themselves are just ideas I had to spread the utility around. I also may have missed some buffs in the process. I figure any of the one-off buffs (Paladin Endurance buff, for example) can have their durations decreased and stack with others of the same kind.

    So... what do y'all think?
    Last edited by Yraen; 04-18-2011 at 12:03 PM.

  2. #2
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    looks good but as two problems

    Firstly, it means they require you to have one of every spec in a raid for appropriate buff stacking, especially if they are even half as powerful as your filler numbers!

    Secondly it would require a rebalance of every current piece of content to make it challenging again with such increased utility from groups.

    I still think its a good idea, bard + archon cover everything just about and thats a shame.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derath View Post
    looks good but as two problems

    Firstly, it means they require you to have one of every spec in a raid for appropriate buff stacking, especially if they are even half as powerful as your filler numbers!

    Secondly it would require a rebalance of every current piece of content to make it challenging again with such increased utility from groups.

    I still think its a good idea, bard + archon cover everything just about and thats a shame.
    Yeah, I realize it would require a complete restructure of both groups/raids and the content provided and this is probably just "what if" as the changes required would be immense.

    If Trion would, instead, increase the power of all class buffs to provide the same benefit (or rearrange the stacking issues)... that would go a long way towards class parity.
    Last edited by Yraen; 04-18-2011 at 12:08 PM.

  4. #4
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    Hmm how should i say it to not be very hard on you:


    NO.

    There are lets say 20 total uniq buffs out there. You should be able to cover them with a variety of class choices, if you make them all unique it will become bring the class not the player concept. Wow has been there they learned on it's mistake No reason for Rift to do the same problem. When you get benched for fresh lvl 50 because he provides 3 more raid wide buffs then you, you see why it is bad.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deathfairy View Post
    Hmm how should i say it to not be very hard on you:


    NO.

    There are lets say 20 total uniq buffs out there. You should be able to cover them with a variety of class choices, if you make them all unique it will become bring the class not the player concept. Wow has been there they learned on it's mistake No reason for Rift to do the same problem. When you get benched for fresh lvl 50 because he provides 3 more raid wide buffs then you, you see why it is bad.
    bring the class not the player comes about because of raid tuning balanced for a better player than the average represents, as a result in order for a fight to be difficult they have to presume you have the buffs or it becomes easier when you do actually have them.

    In some ways i think it would be better to make content that you can bring largely what you want to and just have it easier if you micromanage it, but its whether you want to provide harder content to the people that want that, or content that can be approached casually.

    I'm still undecided which i like better.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deathfairy View Post
    Hmm how should i say it to not be very hard on you:


    NO.

    There are lets say 20 total uniq buffs out there. You should be able to cover them with a variety of class choices, if you make them all unique it will become bring the class not the player concept. Wow has been there they learned on it's mistake No reason for Rift to do the same problem. When you get benched for fresh lvl 50 because he provides 3 more raid wide buffs then you, you see why it is bad.
    Thank you for the input, perhaps next time you can provide your own solution instead of criticism?

    The problem is that with some classes being able to outshine the rest with their buffs, those "lesser" classes now have useless abilities in both their Roots and Trees.

    The minimum change that needs to be made is that classes should be able to provide the same value of buff. (i.e. if a Bard can buff Endurance by 52, my Warlord and Beastmaster should be able to buff Endurance by 52... all 3 souls have tree talents to increase the bonus from these buffs)

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derath View Post
    looks good but as two problems

    Firstly, it means they require you to have one of every spec in a raid for appropriate buff stacking, especially if they are even half as powerful as your filler numbers!

    Secondly it would require a rebalance of every current piece of content to make it challenging again with such increased utility from groups.

    I still think its a good idea, bard + archon cover everything just about and thats a shame.
    Third, in their notes on 1.2, they mention that they are looking at this.
    “DEATH! DEATH ANSWERS DEFIANCE!”

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meerletalis View Post
    Third, in their notes on 1.2, they mention that they are looking at this.
    Where are these notes? I've seen the ones posted here in the "Classes of Telara" section and haven't seen any mention of buff changes

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yraen View Post
    Thank you for the input, perhaps next time you can provide your own solution instead of criticism?

    The problem is that with some classes being able to outshine the rest with their buffs, those "lesser" classes now have useless abilities in both their Roots and Trees.

    The minimum change that needs to be made is that classes should be able to provide the same value of buff. (i.e. if a Bard can buff Endurance by 52, my Warlord and Beastmaster should be able to buff Endurance by 52... all 3 souls have tree talents to increase the bonus from these buffs)
    Solution to WHAT? there is no problem. The problem is only in your mind dude. 20 man raid you have 1 bard 1 archon that cover all/most buffs. Where is the problem here? Warlord tree is a TANK tree, yes right now it sucks for tanking ( but read balance update, they are buffing it).

    Yes bards have 12 xtra endurance over standard end buff. Where is the problem in that?

    The issue with you post is that you made up a problem that doesn't exist and trying to solve it...

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deathfairy View Post
    Solution to WHAT? there is no problem. The problem is only in your mind dude. 20 man raid you have 1 bard 1 archon that cover all/most buffs. Where is the problem here? Warlord tree is a TANK tree, yes right now it sucks for tanking ( but read balance update, they are buffing it).

    Yes bards have 12 xtra endurance over standard end buff. Where is the problem in that?

    The issue with you post is that you made up a problem that doesn't exist and trying to solve it...
    The problem is souls being provided with abilities in both the roots and branches that become obsolete when they enter a group or raid while other souls do not experience this.

  11. #11
    Sword of Telara Ts117's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yraen View Post
    The problem is souls being provided with abilities in both the roots and branches that become obsolete when they enter a group or raid while other souls do not experience this.
    Its only a problem if you make it out to be one.

    As a warrior or rogue (non-Bard), I dont care if my buffs are over written by a utility class. My job as a tank or DPS isnt to buff other players. It is to tank or DPS. I cant speak for Clerics or Mages since I havent played them enough to make an informed comment.

  12. #12
    Ascendant phoenixfire82's Avatar
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    I agree the buffs need to be looked at, but some of your suggestions are pretty far out there. 25% spl power buff? may as well just put 20 instant spawn red orbs @ each raid boss imo
    Last edited by phoenixfire82; 04-18-2011 at 08:52 PM.

  13. #13
    Rift Disciple Nanoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ts117 View Post
    Its only a problem if you make it out to be one.

    As a warrior or rogue (non-Bard), I dont care if my buffs are over written by a utility class. My job as a tank or DPS isnt to buff other players. It is to tank or DPS. I cant speak for Clerics or Mages since I havent played them enough to make an informed comment.
    Thing is, the Warlord. Nearly all his strong points are Buffs, which are the Problem when the deeper you go into his tree the more buffs that are useless appear...

  14. #14
    Plane Walker Dhamp's Avatar
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    WoW mentality:
    Healer, tank, DPS, each bringing a few buffs

    Most other MMOs (very noticeably ones like FFXI):
    Healer, tank, DPS, each bringing a few minor buffs, primarily to enhance their soloplay
    Support classes, with bigger and better buffs at the cost of DPS, tankyness and healing output.

    I wonder which Rift is?

  15. #15
    Prophet of Telara
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    the problem is with some classes that they actually lose abilities in a raid setting.

    about your suggestions:
    shaman:
    courages dont stack with either archon or bm atm, why should they remain the same? the 5%damage debuff doesn't stack

    druid:give a buff to fairy, she is already useless atm, give a unique buff to satyr, he is worse than all other pets because he supposedly 'helps' the team somehow, atm no.

    inq:
    he suffers in his dps omparetment imo because he can supposedly debuff the mob/boss to take addidtional damage. currently porvided by bard.

    etc.

    clerics dont have a 'support' soul. but their few buffs that they bring to the table are all overwritten atm except a single courage in the shaman tree...

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