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Thread: Rogue Damage bonuses.

  1. #1
    Champion Skyline's Avatar
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    Default Rogue Damage bonuses.

    Maybe a Dev could comment on this...

    Every single damage modifier in a rogue soul is busted.

    Heat Retention - does not add 30% damage, more like 15% - 20%.
    Murderous Intent - does not add 4% damage, more like 1% - 2%.

    catch my drift?

    Maybe we should be making sure classes work properly before nerfing the hell out of others.

    So now I repeat myself for the nth time... did Alpha Testers even test anything?!?!

  2. #2
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    You might want to go back to algebra class. All damage modifiers are additive. So if you have 3 +10% damage talents you do 130% base damage. Add 30% to that - 160%. Total damage increase: 30%/130% = 23%.

    So you overall damage went up by 23% instead of 30. But you still got 30% of the base damage increase. Get your facts strait before you come to QQ here.
    Last edited by Deathfairy; 04-18-2011 at 11:59 AM.

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    Champion Dao Jones's Avatar
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    Clerics have a similar problem. As an example: we have a 5 point talent that adds 10% damage to our insta-cast spells. It actually adds more like 5-6%.

    Apparently, math is hard.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dao Jones View Post
    Clerics have a similar problem. As an example: we have a 5 point talent that adds 10% damage to our insta-cast spells. It actually adds more like 5-6%.

    Apparently, math is hard.
    yes math is hard read my post, you might consider learning it. It is helpful.
    Last edited by Deathfairy; 04-18-2011 at 12:00 PM.

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    Champion Skyline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deathfairy View Post
    yes math is hard read my post, you might consider learning it. It is helpful.
    What is so hard about understanding that, if my finisher does 100 damage, and gets a 30% boost that it should be doing 130 damage not 115.

    I think you need to go back to English and Grammar school.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skyline View Post
    What is so hard about understanding that, if my finisher does 100 damage, and gets a 30% boost that it should be doing 130 damage not 115.

    I think you need to go back to English and Grammar school.
    Just because mechanics don't work the way you THINK they should would doesn't mean they are broken. They work exactly how they suppose to they give you 30% base damage. If you don't like it too bad that is how this game works...

  7. #7
    Xsi
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    Shield of Telara Xsi's Avatar
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    You need to post before talent and after talent (hard numbers - screenshots preferred) against a dummy.

    It's always a good idea to do low/high end damage as well.

    ^^^ Some people don't understand that some abilities are bugged. Some of the PvP talent tree parts are also much less than listed.
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    Haven't tested it much myself but what Deathfairy says is probably right. Having all damage bonuses stack multiplicatively would boost damage too much.
    Last edited by Cress Tristan; 04-18-2011 at 01:08 PM.

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    Rift Disciple Harkonis's Avatar
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    people also tend to forget mitigation when they complain about these bonuses not working.

  10. #10
    Sword of Telara Mr Malingers's Avatar
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    Heat Retention seems to work fine for me, you have any evidence of your problems such as a simple before and after SS? Or are we just supposed to take you on your word?
    Maybe he just wanted to steal our wire cutters. You ever think of that?

  11. #11
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skyline View Post
    What is so hard about understanding that, if my finisher does 100 damage, and gets a 30% boost that it should be doing 130 damage not 115.

    I think you need to go back to English and Grammar school.
    If your finisher is doing 100 damage it is amplified by your +20% from the lower tier % boosters in nightblade, not to mention the +2% to +8% from your prior heat retention procs).

    This means your base damage from that finisher is about 78-82, which will net you a heat retention of 117-123.

    if you were also specced into Assassin for the +10% on crit, you can assume that would always be up. So now you have a damage increase of 30-38% on your normal finishers, which puts your base damage at 72(assuming a full 8% heat retention). That comes out to right about 115.

    So, yeah, that just about exactly what you should be hitting for.
    Last edited by Dalaen; 04-18-2011 at 01:47 PM.

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    lol at this thread.

  13. #13
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    All dmg bonuses are addative, no mater if they are passive (+15% NB talent) or active (30% Heat Retention).

    Maybe certain active bonuses should be multiplicative, Heat Retention for example.

    My view of it is if it doesn't change the dmg on the tooltip it should be multiplicative.

  14. #14
    Champion Skyline's Avatar
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    That 100 dmg was just a for example...


    So let's use all nb bonuses for example.

    So If i specced 51 Nightblade.

    For finishers only I would have:

    Passive:
    15% Coup De Grace
    9% Unstable State
    3% Fire and Death Attunement

    Active:
    5% Hellfire Blades
    10% Heat Retention - stacks.
    30% Heat Retention

    now FOR EXAMPLE, If my finisher does 100 damage with none of the above; then with the passive talents it would be listed as 127 damage.

    If Hellfire Blades procs and i use a finisher it would do 5% more damage, making it do 133.35.

    If Hellfire was up and I had 10% from the stacks it would do 146.05.

    If both of those were up WITH the 30% more from Heat Retention, it should basically do 45% more damage of 127 damage.

    Meaning it would be 184.15.

    Regardless of what it is, the way I just mentioned TO ME ANYWAY seems like the more obvious way that the mechanic should work.

    I will go test this on the dummy and make screens and all that ****.


    Edit: If they are indeed multiplicative then it is gimping us.

    Say the 30% from Nightstalker is multiplicative with the 30% of Heat Retention.

    If my finisher did 100 damage. With Nightstalker it should do 130 dmg. With Heat Retention 30%, it would do 30% of 30 (from Nightstalker) making it a total of about 139.

    see how this SHOULD NOT BE INTENDED?!!?!
    Last edited by Skyline; 04-18-2011 at 08:39 PM.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skyline View Post
    Edit: If they are indeed multiplicative then it is gimping us.

    Say the 30% from Nightstalker is multiplicative with the 30% of Heat Retention.

    If my finisher did 100 damage. With Nightstalker it should do 130 dmg. With Heat Retention 30%, it would do 30% of 30 (from Nightstalker) making it a total of about 139.

    see how this SHOULD NOT BE INTENDED?!!?!
    Additive stacking:
    1 + 0.3 + 0.3 = 1.6

    Multiplicative stacking:
    1 * 1.3 * 1.3 = 1.69

    Multiplicative is better for damage output for a given set of numbers, but Trion chose to make all damage bonuses (passive and "active") stack additively and balanced the bonuses based on that. While it's not necessarily intuitive to uninitiated players, it's better to have everything be consistent than have some mixture of additive and multiplicative.

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