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Thread: PvP soul is a stupid idea.

  1. #1
    Plane Walker
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    Default PvP soul is a stupid idea.

    I think that PvP souls are stupid. The problem with them is twofold:

    It limits build options severely.
    Any character that has a two or three soul synergy is pretty much automatically at a disadvantage in PvP because the PvP soul eats away points they need to reach the talents that go together, while any character that can roll with just one soul and be perfectly fine gets a bunch of huge bonuses from it without having to worry about it.

    It dumbs down characters.
    Using the PvP soul ties up a load of points without giving you back any real abilities. It gives you a couple of cooldowns, and that's nice and all, but points invested in any other tree will yield a lot of abilities, at least a few of which you'll use frequently. So essentially taking this soul dumbs down your character just so you can have the really powerful passive increases.

    In essence, the class system and free building is one of the best things about Rift, and PvP souls come in, smack you in the face and say "NO!" if you want to use it in PvP.
    Last edited by Ebethil; 04-16-2011 at 07:00 PM.

  2. #2
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ebethil View Post
    I think that PvP souls are stupid. The problem with them is twofold:

    It limits build options severely.
    Any character that has a two or three soul synergy is pretty much automatically at a disadvantage in PvP because the PvP soul eats away points they need to reach the talents that go together, while any character that can roll with just one soul and be perfectly fine gets a bunch of huge bonuses from it without having to worry about it.

    It dumbs down characters.
    Using the PvP soul ties up a load of points without giving you back any real abilities. It gives you a couple of cooldowns, and that's nice and all, but points invested in any other tree will yield a lot of abilities, at least a few of which you'll use frequently. So essentially taking this soul dumbs down your character just so you can have the really powerful passive increases.

    In essence, the class system and free building is one of the best things about Rift, and PvP souls come in, smack you in the face and say "NO!" if you want to use it in PvP.
    I disagree that the PvP soul is stupid, but there are cases where it needs adjustment.

  3. #3
    Shield of Telara Gnova's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ebethil View Post
    I think that PvP souls are stupid. The problem with them is twofold:

    It limits build options severely.
    Any character that has a two or three soul synergy is pretty much automatically at a disadvantage in PvP because the PvP soul eats away points they need to reach the talents that go together, while any character that can roll with just one soul and be perfectly fine gets a bunch of huge bonuses from it without having to worry about it.

    It dumbs down characters.
    Using the PvP soul ties up a load of points without giving you back any real abilities. It gives you a couple of cooldowns, and that's nice and all, but points invested in any other tree will yield a lot of abilities, at least a few of which you'll use frequently. So essentially taking this soul dumbs down your character just so you can have the really powerful passive increases.

    In essence, the class system and free building is one of the best things about Rift, and PvP souls come in, smack you in the face and say "NO!" if you want to use it in PvP.
    The pvp souls add complexity to builds IMO.
    A player needs to take a hard look at whether the points are worth the investment.
    It doesn't force anyone to do anything and I would guess that over 1/2 the people running pvp builds have no points spent in their pvp soul.
    My pve and pvp builds are quite different due to it.

  4. #4
    Plane Walker
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    How does taking the ammount of stuff your character can do and slashing it by a third to a half make builds more complex? That's just a completely absurd notion.

  5. #5
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ebethil View Post
    How does taking the ammount of stuff your character can do and slashing it by a third to a half make builds more complex? That's just a completely absurd notion.
    In some cases, the trade off is worth it. There are some very powerful abilities in my PvP soul. The problem is when you have to lose essential abilities to get them. I just posted in another thread about the problem of losing Silent Footsteps and not having Hidden Veil as a Nightblade in PvP. I hope they'll consider putting some of those kinds of key utility talents into the PvP trees so we don't have to feel gimped.

  6. #6
    Ascendant Delphya's Avatar
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    Personally I think the PVP soul should not use points but prestige points to buy the levels.
    It is a PVP soul so it should be gained by spending Favor, the initial level offers 1 prestige point to spend in the tree, then once you reach 50 you can spend more prestige points to get higher into the tree based upon rank.

    This way it does not affect the 3 souls you already have and more importantly does not create a "need" for a soul whose only purpose is PVP.

    This way everyone starts out the same and remains the same throughout the whole game.
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  7. #7
    Plane Touched
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ebethil View Post
    How does taking the ammount of stuff your character can do and slashing it by a third to a half make builds more complex? That's just a completely absurd notion.
    It doesn't slash it in half. Adds another option.

    Not all pvp builds make use of it.

  8. #8
    Shadowlander
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    pvp souls should use a separate point pool. I dont see much reason for putting many points into it past the first tier for any mage builds
    Last edited by WoodyDave; 04-16-2011 at 09:20 PM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellogg View Post
    It doesn't slash it in half. Adds another option.
    Actually it does. 13 out of 18 abilities you can gain in a soul are unlocked in the first 20 points of it, so if you went 21 in a PvP soul you'd lose 8 base abilities plus whatever purchasable abilities are in the other trees. You lose a LOT of abilities from PvP souls.


    And yea, I agree, PvP soul should just be a fourth soul on your character and you should get the points you unlocked in it for free. There is just no good reason to completely wreck the cool character system for PvP purposes.

  10. #10
    Shadowlander
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    I think they should take a page out of DAOC's book. The pvp soul is unlocked at different pvp ranks. The more pvp you do the more you get out of that soul.

    I agree it shouldn't take leveling points out of other souls, because in most builds there are a lot of key abilitys you would loose out on for any meaningful investment into the pvp soul.

  11. #11
    Rift Disciple Aalysha's Avatar
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    I personally would like to see the PvP soul seperated and you slowly unlock points to spend in the PvP soul tree by PvPing.
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  12. #12
    Telaran Midrange's Avatar
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    Having a whole lot of buttons to push in pvp isn't a good thing, there are many other things to worry about, it's good to just have a cooldown here and there which will save your life or guarantee a kill.

    Having heaps of buttons in a massive rotation is for pve where all you do is push buttons and move once in a while. If you want more to push for pvp you're either a) not very good at it b) playing something so OP that you don't have to be good at it.

  13. #13
    Shield of Telara Gnova's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ebethil View Post
    How does taking the ammount of stuff your character can do and slashing it by a third to a half make builds more complex? That's just a completely absurd notion.
    It is more complex because with you having to spread points into more souls the points are much more valuable.
    No one is making anyone use a pvp soul that is just a option available to you just like any 3 soul combo. If you think it takes too much away from your character build don't use it.
    If you think it is valuable enough to slot into your role even at the loss of other abilities then use it and spend time deciding what you will sacrifice.

    Unlocking additional points to put into the pvp soul based on prestige is a awful idea. It would make the difference between different rank players too large.
    Guess they could do a level based unlock but then everyone would just have a filled up tree and what is the point of that.

  14. #14
    Soulwalker
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    I agree, the pvp soul should be in another tree. Destroy builds which they need the 3rd soul. A lot of pvp builds only get the first 5 points because they are too much lose of dps if we don't get them

  15. #15
    Plane Walker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gnova View Post
    It is more complex because with you having to spread points into more souls the points are much more valuable.
    No one is making anyone use a pvp soul that is just a option available to you just like any 3 soul combo. If you think it takes too much away from your character build don't use it.
    If you think it is valuable enough to slot into your role even at the loss of other abilities then use it and spend time deciding what you will sacrifice.
    It's not "more complex" because you have to make tough choices and cut out half of your characters abilities. It reduces complexity because the number of viable build options goes down by a good chunk and because it changes characters from having complex synergies to a lame cooldown centric PvP.

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