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Thread: power vs energy

  1. #1
    Rift Disciple Ekryth's Avatar
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    Default power vs energy

    I'm curious to know if the regen rate between rogues and warriors is the same? The total energy and power both classes have is 100(minus a possible 120 for bladedancers - which would only be helpful at the opening of a battle). I play a 50 warrior and 50 rogue and I'm beginning to see why rogues might be having problems..

    For my warrior: attack point generating abilities cost 20 power(searing strike, power strike, dual strike) and the follow-up or reactive abilities seem to cost less power, at 10-15(rising waterfall, path of the hurricane, turn the blade,inescapable fury). The finishers cost 10-15 power(fiery burst, shifting blades, punishing blow, deathblow).

    For my rogue: combo point generating abilities cost 30 energy(keen strike, savage strike, primal strike). Rogues don't exactly have follow ups(besides BD), but abilities on cooldowns cost 40 energy(precision strike, puncture, dusk strike), the finishers cost 40 energy(deadly strike, final blow, impale, blazing strike).

    SO, if energy and power regens at the same rate, rogues will always be at a HUGE disadvantage. I was thinking about this more in a pve situation(in an instance constantly usage power/energy. However, this would obviously effect pvp as well.
    Last edited by Ekryth; 04-16-2011 at 03:16 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ekryth View Post
    I'm curious to know if the regen rate between rogues and warriors is the same?
    No, apples are not bananas even though they are both fruits.
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  3. #3
    Rift Disciple Ekryth's Avatar
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    Another thing to think about is that follow up abilities for the warriors cost LESS power than the attack point builders, therefore, your follow up will always go off before your normal builder. No extra thoughts have to go into your rotations. This gives you more time to be able pay closer attention to your surroundings while keeping up maximum damage.

    The rogue abilities that are used in conjunction between combo point builders cost MORE energy than the normal spammable builder. In any fight situation were your energy is being spent at a constant rate, your harder hitting abilities(that have small cooldowns) will never go off, unless you are watching them every 8-10sec during a fight, which is not logical in many pvp / pve situations.

    Easier rotations are very valuable.

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    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ekryth View Post
    Another thing to think about is that follow up abilities for the warriors cost LESS power than the attack point builders, therefore, your follow up will always go off before your normal builder. No extra thoughts have to go into your rotations. This gives you more time to be able pay closer attention to your surroundings while keeping up maximum damage.

    The rogue abilities that are used in conjunction between combo point builders cost MORE energy than the normal spammable builder. In any fight situation were your energy is being spent at a constant rate, your harder hitting abilities(that have small cooldowns) will never go off, unless you are watching them every 8-10sec during a fight, which is not logical in many pvp / pve situations.

    Easier rotations are very valuable.
    From what I've noticed the harder hitting higher energy cost ability will also generate more combo points, getting you to that ever valuable finisher, which has a low cost at 5 points, so I think it pays off. On my rogue, I would wait the extra second to get my big move in, maybe I was doing it wrong, who knows!

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    Rift Disciple Ekryth's Avatar
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    Yea, they do give 2 combo points, but having to wait on energy for a higher damage attack seems lame. I'm just comparing warrior follow ups(which also do more dmg and cost less to use)to rogue abilities on cooldowns.

    I'm not trying to say "nerf warrior blah blah," I'm just trying to show the differences and in hopes to help the rogues as a whole.

  6. #6
    Soulwalker
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    You seem to be missing something I noticed a while back on my rogue.

    It could be my mind playing tricks on me, but a rogue's energy comes back faster than a warrior's, AND they seem to have a shorter GCD.

    Of course, I have never used a measurement of time (like a clock) so this is just from my experience, from my perspective.

  7. #7
    Telaran
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    Rogue energy returns faster than Warrior power (it was, repectively, 20/second and 10/second in mid-beta, not absolutely sure now).

    Rogue GCD is 1 second, Warriors use 1.5 seconds.

    Bread-and-butter Rogue builders cost 30 energy and typical finishers cost 20 energy with 5 combo points. Bread-and-butter Warrior builders cost 20 power and typical finishers cost 10 power.

    After a cycle using only 'typical' abilities, a Rogue will have to wait 2.5 seconds to get back to the energy where they started the cycle [ ( 170 - 120 ) / 20 ], for a total repeatable cycle time of 8.5 seconds. After a similar cycle, Warriors will have to wait 0.5 seconds to get back to starting power, for a total cycle time of 6.5 seconds. Because the loss is greater for Rogues, they will much more quickly deplete their bar and reach the point where they have to wait to regain energy. Warriors also have easier access to power management abilities.

    That having been said, the advantage or disadvanatage provided by each Calling's mechanic depends on the abilities that are being fueled by the power or energy, as discussed at length in what I understand to be several other posts .

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    Rift Disciple Ekryth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by turbodog01 View Post
    Rogue energy returns faster than Warrior power (it was, repectively, 20/second and 10/second in mid-beta, not absolutely sure now).

    Rogue GCD is 1 second, Warriors use 1.5 seconds.

    Bread-and-butter Rogue builders cost 30 energy and typical finishers cost 20 energy with 5 combo points. Bread-and-butter Warrior builders cost 20 power and typical finishers cost 10 power.

    After a cycle using only 'typical' abilities, a Rogue will have to wait 2.5 seconds to get back to the energy where they started the cycle [ ( 170 - 120 ) / 20 ], for a total repeatable cycle time of 8.5 seconds. After a similar cycle, Warriors will have to wait 0.5 seconds to get back to starting power, for a total cycle time of 6.5 seconds. Because the loss is greater for Rogues, they will much more quickly deplete their bar and reach the point where they have to wait to regain energy. Warriors also have easier access to power management abilities.

    That having been said, the advantage or disadvanatage provided by each Calling's mechanic depends on the abilities that are being fueled by the power or energy, as discussed at length in what I understand to be several other posts .

    Maybe I should change the title of this thread.

    I'm trying to state that warrior follow up abilities cost LESS power than their normal attack builders. What this does is always gives precedence for the follow up abilities to go off before normal attacks.

    For the rogues case, abilities you could somewhat consider follow ups(abilities with short cooldowns)such as puncture, dusk strike, precision strike, shadow assault, do not ever go off before a normal combo building attack.

    A warrior can make a macro that will always be 100% effective while they spam one button. A rogue can make a macro in the exact same way, but it will never be as effective because the special abilities cost MORE energy than the normal abilities. The rogue would have to wait for his energy to get to the point to use the special ability every time it is up - which can be almost twice every 8-10sec.
    Last edited by Ekryth; 04-17-2011 at 03:23 PM.

  9. #9
    Rift Disciple Ekryth's Avatar
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    Default .....edit button.....

    I honestly think this is the answer to the problem of why melee rogue souls are having any issues in pvp or pve. This could also be the issue for the ranged rogue souls, but I'm not aware because I don't play them. Also, SLIGHT adjustments for energy refund skills would be helpful as well.

    I think this should be looked at before any raw damage boost to any of the rogues souls happens.
    Last edited by Ekryth; 04-17-2011 at 03:29 PM.

  10. #10
    Plane Touched
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    As a warrior, i think that if differences exists between power and energy consume rates they are minimal. In instances, all those followup cannot be spammed so freely because you would run out of energy in a couple of hits, meaning that you should have to lower your hit rate to give the bar enough time to refill.
    This doesnt solve the problem because if you dont slow your hit rate from the beginning you will run out of power.
    Warrior skilsl that help manage the power supply are in the form of dot or as a recover or as a cost reduction. They are deep in the tree souls so they are difficult to put together without confusing the souls.
    Imo, both energy and power could use a little buff in the form of an increased regeneration or maximum since they work more or less like mana but actually there isnt a way to properly reduce starvation during fights, in pve and pvp, if not by slowing the attacks.
    This can be done in pve if you have a good group, but it is suicide in pvp in particular against some souls.

  11. #11
    Ascendant Talamare's Avatar
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    Rogue has easily twice the regen rate, maybe even 3x
    It's not a damage meters fault you can't hit a certain dps and others similar to you can, it's the fault of your bad gear, bad spec, or bad rotation. So stop getting mad at the meters and invest some time into not being bad.

    DPS Mathcraft - How damage works
    DPS Mathcraft - STR vs DEX
    DPS Mathcraft - Armor
    Warrior DPS Calculator *UPDATED* v0.2
    Paragon Rebalancing Suggestion

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