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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Balance Update 15th April 2011

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    Telaran
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    Default Balance Update 15th April 2011

    Hey all,
    Time for another quick balance update, we’re working hard on the next major patch which will include a number of changes. I wanted to quickly go over some general issues in this post while specific Calling posts will be going up in their respective forums from the Calling leads.

    Auto-attack
    Just a quick note here, we’ve identified a bug where ability execution can block auto-attack. This issue most noticeably affects Rogues especially those who make heavy use of procced effects. A fix for this will be included in the next major updated.

    Hybrids vs Pures
    One of the biggest issues we see regarding balance is min/maxed Hybrids vs 51 point Pures. Every Calling right now has multiple hybrid specs that can be extremely competitive in whichever role they’re trying to fill. Unfortunately in a lot of cases spending a high number of points in a single Soul is not the most effective approach. One of the goals we’re focusing on right now is increasing the effectiveness of the Pure builds to help reduce the gap between Hybrids and Pures.

    Calling Specific Posts
    Warrior - http://forums.riftgame.com/showthrea...5th-April-2011
    Cleric - http://forums.riftgame.com/showthrea...5th-April-2011
    Rogue - http://forums.riftgame.com/showthrea...5th-April-2011
    Mage - http://forums.riftgame.com/showthrea...5th-April-2011
    PVP - http://forums.riftgame.com/showthrea...5th-April-2011

    As with the previous patch these changes will be going up on the Alpha server in a few weeks so please check them out and we look forward to your feedback.

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    Rift Chaser Khierra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sweet View Post
    Hey all,
    Time for another quick balance update, we’re working hard on the next major patch which will include a number of changes. I wanted to quickly go over some general issues in this post while specific Calling posts will be going up in their respective forums from the Calling leads.

    Auto-attack
    Just a quick note here, we’ve identified a bug where ability execution can block auto-attack. This issue most noticeably affects Rogues especially those who make heavy use of procced effects. A fix for this will be included in the next major updated.

    Hybrids vs Pures
    One of the biggest issues we see regarding balance is min/maxed Hybrids vs 51 point Pures. Every Calling right now has multiple hybrid specs that can be extremely competitive in whichever role they’re trying to fill. Unfortunately in a lot of cases spending a high number of points in a single Soul is not the most effective approach. One of the goals we’re focusing on right now is increasing the effectiveness of the Pure builds to help reduce the gap between Hybrids and Pures.

    Calling Specific Posts
    Warrior - http://forums.riftgame.com/showthrea...5th-April-2011
    Cleric - http://forums.riftgame.com/showthrea...5th-April-2011
    Rogue - http://forums.riftgame.com/showthrea...5th-April-2011
    Mage - http://forums.riftgame.com/showthrea...5th-April-2011
    PVP - http://forums.riftgame.com/showthrea...5th-April-2011

    As with the previous patch these changes will be going up on the Alpha server in a few weeks so please check them out and we look forward to your feedback.
    Good changes overall even if there are more work to be done...

    One thing to remember though... there are alot of people out there loving the hybrids. Just make sure you are not forcing them to go into pure spec to be competitive. Sure there should be options on both sides without reducing the amount of possibilities. I mean already today you have weaved in several very sweet abilities at ranks 38+ which makes the multispec much harder to create. For example if you want to go paragon then the Paired strike is a very very much needed skill.. takes 44 points into paragon tree to get it so you are basically almost pure just to get that. Unfortunately the paragon is not doing good at alll so going pure paragon atm is pure fail :S (beside for the cool looks)

    /Khierra

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    Rift Master Theskal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khierra View Post
    Good changes overall even if there are more work to be done...

    One thing to remember though... there are alot of people out there loving the hybrids. Just make sure you are not forcing them to go into pure spec to be competitive. Sure there should be options on both sides without reducing the amount of possibilities. I mean already today you have weaved in several very sweet abilities at ranks 38+ which makes the multispec much harder to create. For example if you want to go paragon then the Paired strike is a very very much needed skill.. takes 44 points into paragon tree to get it so you are basically almost pure just to get that. Unfortunately the paragon is not doing good at alll so going pure paragon atm is pure fail :S (beside for the cool looks)

    /Khierra
    agreed. I'm a tiny bit apprehensive

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    Aus
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    Im jumping for joy. Because this means they really are playing the same game we are

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    Ascendant
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    They are playing the pve game, it seems. Someone forgot to tell them World pvp is "actually" pvp, an not battlegrounds botting....
    Signus Parka Parabellum

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    bleh, i wish they would not do the pure part. Creating one trick ponies that should be uber will mess up both pve and pvp, the big up of this game is the fact of hybridisations.

    51p builds will make this game far more boring especially if it comes to "51p deals the most damage but only can do that" sorta thing cause for competative play that is all that matters.
    Harkain:.
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    Champion of Telara The Real Viz Shady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sweet View Post
    Auto-attack
    Just a quick note here, we’ve identified a bug where ability execution can block auto-attack. This issue most noticeably affects Rogues especially those who make heavy use of procced effects. A fix for this will be included in the next major updated.
    My Nightblade thanks you! Finally some competitive dps maybe?!

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    Champion Red Exodus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sweet View Post
    Auto-attack
    Just a quick note here, we’ve identified a bug where ability execution can block auto-attack. This issue most noticeably affects Rogues especially those who make heavy use of procced effects. A fix for this will be included in the next major updated.

    Hybrids vs Pures
    One of the biggest issues we see regarding balance is min/maxed Hybrids vs 51 point Pures. Every Calling right now has multiple hybrid specs that can be extremely competitive in whichever role they’re trying to fill. Unfortunately in a lot of cases spending a high number of points in a single Soul is not the most effective approach. One of the goals we’re focusing on right now is increasing the effectiveness of the Pure builds to help reduce the gap between Hybrids and Pures.
    Thank god for these two. With MM especially it feels like I'm gimping myself by going to the full 51 point set up, whereas most people would just go to around the 32 or 38 mark to avoid 'wasting' their points.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tasogie View Post
    They are playing the pve game, it seems. Someone forgot to tell them World pvp is "actually" pvp, an not battlegrounds botting....
    World PvP is about being more prepared than your opponent, you can't really balance that. Whoever is more prepared wins, plain and simple.
    Last edited by Red Exodus; 04-15-2011 at 08:25 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dink View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by oldschool View Post
    go play a fps pvp in mmorpgs did nothing but bring out the worst in the cummunity
    In one post, you've managed to bring out the worst in capitalization, punctuation and spelling.

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    Telaran Saurumon's Avatar
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    What happens to the people that spent their Favor on a PvP weapon already?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Harkain View Post
    bleh, i wish they would not do the pure part. Creating one trick ponies that should be uber will mess up both pve and pvp, the big up of this game is the fact of hybridisations.

    51p builds will make this game far more boring especially if it comes to "51p deals the most damage but only can do that" sorta thing cause for competative play that is all that matters.

    I kinda agree here. If 51 points in a single tree makes them the the best at any specific task, by a considerable margin, then all the soul customization that is what has drawn so many people to rift may as well be forgotten.

    To use my class as an example, warriors basically have 4 dps and 4 tanking trees. If i wanted to tank end game content, i could each of my 4 different roles set up to have 51 points in each tree, for each specific task each one was best at.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Harkain View Post
    bleh, i wish they would not do the pure part. Creating one trick ponies that should be uber will mess up both pve and pvp, the big up of this game is the fact of hybridisations.
    How did you get making pure builds "uber" from "increasing the effectiveness to reduce the gap between Hybrids and Pures?" If I want to spend 51 points in one tree I should not be penalized for doing so.
    Last edited by Gilandred; 04-15-2011 at 09:09 PM.

  12. #12
    Telaran
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    I was reading Sweets post, got really excited. Increasing pure builds so its viable to put in 51 points, yes! Quickly click cleric link, scroll through reading quick... nothing about Justicars. Forever forgotten.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SoggyToast View Post
    I kinda agree here. If 51 points in a single tree makes them the the best at any specific task, by a considerable margin, then all the soul customization that is what has drawn so many people to rift may as well be forgotten.

    To use my class as an example, warriors basically have 4 dps and 4 tanking trees. If i wanted to tank end game content, i could each of my 4 different roles set up to have 51 points in each tree, for each specific task each one was best at.
    On the other hand, if hybrid builds are always superior, why would anyone ever take 51 points in a soul? If it's not ever a viable option, then the option may as well not exist.

    Since we're talking tanks, let's talk paladin for a moment. I like the paladin a lot, and if I had my way I'd go with a split between paladin and warlord for my two souls, probably 44 pala/22 warlord. I like the way those two souls work. However, presently, if I do that, I'm sacrificing a *ton* of power, because the raw damage reduction of Reaver and the stacking buffs of Void Knight are simply too powerful to ignore. Furthermore, aside from the Impassable Guard ability at 44 point, there's virtually nothing worth taking in paladin past 20 points that actually increases your mitigation by any reasonable amount. If you switch over to the tanking thread, there's a lot of discussion about what soul to go with, but ultimately if you go 51 points into any tanking soul as a warrior it's guaranteed that you will not be as powerful baseline as other tanks... so that's not actually an option.


    I would contend that the strength of Rift's soul system is NOT the ability to have viable builds that split their points among multiple souls, but rather the ability to choose what you want to do with a talent system that doesn't force you into a specific path. If hybrid builds are always superior to pure builds, then we have been forced into a path (that of the hybrid), and the strength of Rift's soul system has been lost.

    (I know perfect balance is impossible to achieve, but I think there's certainly room for improvement over the present system).

  14. #14
    Telaran
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    Default Ok so what about PVE devs?

    Here is the problem..

    Right now dps parsers in my guild and most look like this in raiding..

    Warriors 1k + dps

    Druid/Shaman 1k + dps

    rogue 800 + dps (ranger only)

    mage 700 dps (stormcaller and necro/lock only)

    you want to nerf the classes dps?

    please guys fix this..clerics and clerics out dpsing mages really?

    here is closer to how things should look


    1) melee rogue

    2) mage/ ranged rogues

    3) warriors

    4) priests

    DPS parsers dont lie folks..

    Also PS please make a spec viable for mage that does mroe than 550 dps that does not require a pet...

    every spec over 600 has a pet..there are NO non pet specs over 600 I guanantee that

    Please guys fix this some of us HATE pet classes

    Most games I am a pvper but I will say I love your guys content. Quite frankly though its not worth bringing a pve DPS mage to a raid other than aoeing trash .

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    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elminster View Post
    here is closer to how things should look

    1) melee rogue
    2) mage/ ranged rogues
    3) warriors
    4) priests

    DPS parsers dont lie folks..
    It should really look like this:

    1) dps rogue, dps warrior, dps priest, dps mage

    Every calling who are speccing pve dps should do similar damage as another calling who are specced to pve dps. Especially if their gear level is same.
    Last edited by Naakka; 04-16-2011 at 12:09 AM. Reason: Typos

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