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Thread: How Single Target PVE DPS should be ranked:

  1. #1
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    Default How Single Target PVE DPS should be ranked:

    We see a lot of QQ on these forums about "DPS" and how X class does too much or Y class does to little. This is how it should be balanced (and sometimes is).

    First of all, lets go into risk factors. You have 2 big risk factors when DPSing.

    Pet vs No pet.
    Melee vs Ranged.

    Having a pet is the first (and most important) risk factor, as it is another source of damage that can die, needs to be micro managed along with your character, and if dies you take a big dps loss unless you get it out again.

    Being melee is the second risk factor. Being in melee is simply inherently more risky then staying at range, this is just obvious. While Rift isn't so melee unfriendly that it makes a world of difference, it is still an important factor.

    Another minor factor about pets is whether your class has a fast summon, and whether your pet is melee or ranged. No fast summon and a melee pet are more risk factors.

    (a minor note is that things change for AoE DPS, since some souls and specifically set up to do AoE dps, like the Stormcaller, in that situation, they should be at the top in AoE situations, but this post is about ST).

    With that being said, I'll break up how the PvE DPS of souls should break down, using a "tier" system.

    S Tier (highest DPS): Beastmasters, Druids.

    Why? These are both melee classes with melee pets, and no fast summons.

    A tier (second highest): Necromancers, Elementalists, Rangers.

    Why? These are the ranged pet classes. Slightly less risky then melee pet classes, but less risky then non-pet classes.

    B tier (third highest): Paragons, Champions, Assassins, Bladedancers, Nightblades, Shamans, Riftblades.

    Why? These are the melee (or mostly melee) dps classes. More risky then being ranged, less risky then a pet class (even if ranged).

    C tier (fourth highest): Warlocks, Marksmen, Saboteurs, Pyromancers, Stormcallers, Inquisitors, Cabalists.

    Why? These are the ranged dps classes that do not have pets. They are less risky then either being melee or having a pet.

    D tier (last tier capable of dps even if low): Archon, Dominator, Chloromancer, Bard.

    Why? These are the ranged support classes, who are brought for primarily their support and secondarily their DPS (ofc Dom is not good at either in pve really, but I'm just sticking it here).

    F Tier: Main tanks/healers. Obviously, since they aren't trying to dps, they should be doing the least dps.

  2. #2
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    A couple more notes:

    1. Just because a class is in a different tier doesn't mean that the DPS between tiers should be a huge gap. 50-100 at most.

    2. Losing a pet should bump you down below a non-pet tier for pet classes. For example, BMs/Druids who lose their pet should do less dps then B tier melee, Rangers/Eles/Necros without a pet should do less DPS then C tier ranged.

    3. If its set up in such a way, every calling has an option to do really good DPS. While BMs/Druids would be on top (and thus the most wanted), Rangers/Eles/Necros would be close in DPS and less risky to play, also cementing them a slot in raids (as if there pet dies, they have fast summons to get it back up, and don't have to worry about melee unfriendliness for themselves).

  3. #3
    Soulwalker
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    It's ridiculous how much I agree with this post.

    /signed

  4. #4
    Champion Lifeisdeath's Avatar
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    Ok, now rank the hybrids. Pyro/elem/warl, bm/reaver/para.
    Last edited by Lifeisdeath; 04-14-2011 at 08:38 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lifeisdeath View Post
    Ok, now rank the hybrids. Pyro/elem/warl, bm/reaver/para.
    Pyro/Elem should be below Elem and above Pyro, so B tier.

    BM/Reaver/Para is a weird one, depends on how much Reaver since thats a tank soul. Probably B or C tier depending on how much Reaver.

  6. #6
    Plane Touched
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    I think you should also include roles in this idea. Ie , If your class you have chosen to play , can heal, tank, melee dps, AND ranged DPS, it probably shouldn't be better at it than other classes. This is how the great "ill play a druid" happened in wow. The less versitile your class is, the better they should be at they few roles they have.

  7. #7
    Prophet of Telara
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    Don't forget to include other inherent abilities that the classes get from their roots and then the optional utility from the branch.

    Druid's do give a strong, albeit redundant, AP/SP boost and they do have some other additional effect attacks. Arguably much more useful utility wise than a Beastmaster for example.

    While this is focusing ST, remember that many classes still get strong aoe options, specific passives, or are extremely ST focused. Shaman for example has a lvl36 passive that is specific to one single target skill, whereas Cabalist gets a bonus to death magic and tons of aoe spells, which their ST DPS should differ by more than just melee vs ranged. Offhand I'm not sure the exact differences between the rest of the classes, but there definitely is a spectrum as to where the class falls on its ability to DPS ST vs aoe.

    So you should not only consider the pet and range, but also where the classes skills focus (ST vs aoe), what other utility they bring to the table, and how durable they are. It doesn't make sense to pick some warlock build over a pyro build if their ST DPS and utility are the same, but the pyro could aoe better. Similarly, you wouldn't want the more fragile melee souls doing the same DPS as their heartier alternatives.

    Really each class should be mapped out within a grid showing their DPS (aoe and ST), their durability, and their utility (CC or buffs). Ideally they would then be content that anticipates the presence and need for certain souls so that eventually every (more than 1 cookie cutter per class at least) sort of combination could have a place within certain content.
    Last edited by Phage; 04-14-2011 at 09:02 AM.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phage View Post
    Don't forget to include other inherent abilities that the classes get from their roots and then the optional utility from the branch.

    Druid's do give a strong, albeit redundant, AP/SP boost and they do have some other additional effect attacks. Arguably much more useful utility wise than a Beastmaster for example.

    While this is focusing ST, remember that many classes still get strong aoe options, specific passives, or are extremely ST focused. Shaman for example has a lvl36 passive that is specific to one single target skill, whereas Cabalist gets a bonus to death magic and tons of aoe spells, which their ST DPS should differ by more than just melee vs ranged. Offhand I'm not sure the exact differences between the rest of the classes, but there definitely is a spectrum as to where the class falls on its ability to DPS ST vs aoe.

    So you should not only consider the pet and range, but also where the classes skills focus (ST vs aoe), what other utility they bring to the table, and how durable they are. It doesn't make sense to pick some warlock build over a pyro build if their ST DPS and utility are the same, but the pyro could aoe better. Similarly, you wouldn't want the more fragile melee souls doing the same DPS as their heartier alternatives.

    Really each class should be mapped out within a grid showing their DPS (aoe and ST), their durability, and their utility (CC or buffs). Ideally they would then be content that anticipates the presence and need for certain souls so that eventually every (more than 1 cookie cutter per class at least) sort of combination could have a place within certain content.
    This is true, but since there are so many potential little tweaks of builds (a point different here or there) that would be such a massive undertaking I doubt anyone would or could do it.

    This is just a basic ranking. It is true that within each tier there should be some differences in dps, but it shouldn't be anything major.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enntense View Post
    I think you should also include roles in this idea. Ie , If your class you have chosen to play , can heal, tank, melee dps, AND ranged DPS, it probably shouldn't be better at it than other classes. This is how the great "ill play a druid" happened in wow. The less versitile your class is, the better they should be at they few roles they have.
    I disagree. Each soul needs to be viable in some way, and shouldn't be gimped because you have other options. For instance, Rogues shouldn't be bad melee dps because they have souls that can tank, support, and ranged dps.

  10. #10
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    This is the most ridiculous topic I've read today. But its still early....

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rafkin_Yscar View Post
    This is the most ridiculous topic I've read today. But its still early....
    How exactly is it ridiculous? Your post here is absolutely useless, you provide no evidence whatsoever for your opinion. This is what you call "being a troll".

    Either be constructive, or accept that your words are meaningless.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rafkin_Yscar View Post
    This is the most ridiculous topic I've read today. But its still early....
    This coming from someone with an underscore in their name? Really?

  13. #13
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    Why should a class that can heal itself be in the first tier?

    No, this list is not good. Not good at all.
    Traetor - 70 Rogue
    Dogmatic - 70 Primalist

  14. #14
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    Another attempt to justify imbalance.


    In general terms dps should be: Rogue = Mage > Warrior > Cleric
    Last edited by Brad1959; 04-14-2011 at 09:54 AM.
    I am a lawyer in real life, but I try to roleplay an honorable character ;)

  15. #15
    Rift Disciple LOLtex's Avatar
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    No, having a pet doesn't mean it's more risky, it means you have more micro to do than someone else (albeit ever so slightly more). Just because you have a pet doesn't mean you should do more DPS, that's terrible logic. This whole list is fail.

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