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Thread: Bring back Sabos

  1. #1
    Shadowlander
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    Default Bring back Sabos

    ...to some degree, at least. Right now, they're a shell of their former selves (from my perspective).

    I'm a cleric and, yes, I was 1 or 2-shotted by my share of Saboteurs. At the time I thought it really sucked. But, they had to build charges up so that was partly my fault for not doing anything about it.

    Having stealthers that are actually scary roaming around the WFs makes them more fun. Much more so than tank-mage Pyros blatantly out in the open on their turrets. I mean, what fun is that?

    Rogues flat out need some viable souls in PvP. They should be the best counter to mages and clerics, with DPS warriors a close second.

    IMHO, of course.

  2. #2
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    sabos needed to target you for 6s(at range, while moving, instant casts) to kill you outright, and it had no real cooldown

    pyros can blow someone up instantly with some setup (squirrel, charge), luck(crits, procs), and medium cooldowns (usually while standing still, but they can do it moving about too - most dont like moving)

    while i wouldnt say the pyromancer burst is balanced either, sabo burst was equally, if not more, absurd because of its re-usability factor.

    as far as warriors go, one in a whacky reaver/riftblade spec hit me with a NONCRIT for 2300...sword and board, titans strike only CRIT me for 2500 tops at its heyday. and this wasnt in a warfront, so no red bauble.

  3. #3
    Prophet of Telara Kaladai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caldern View Post
    sabos needed to target you for 6s(at range, while moving, instant casts) to kill you outright, and it had no real cooldown

    pyros can blow someone up instantly with some setup (squirrel, charge), luck(crits, procs), and medium cooldowns (usually while standing still, but they can do it moving about too - most dont like moving)

    while i wouldnt say the pyromancer burst is balanced either, sabo burst was equally, if not more, absurd because of its re-usability factor.

    as far as warriors go, one in a whacky reaver/riftblade spec hit me with a NONCRIT for 2300...sword and board, titans strike only CRIT me for 2500 tops at its heyday. and this wasnt in a warfront, so no red bauble.
    Infestation maybe with all the DoTs and enhanced burst.
    He need more preparation than a Sabo, for sure.
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  4. #4
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    sabos real issue was the burst, it would have made more sense to make the charges do some damage, and lessen the detonate damage imo. in reality other classes put out roughly the same damage, however they have damage thats more consisteant and therefore can be healer through and countered with defensive CD's. sabs really couldnt because its just BLAM. on the other side what other class deals no damage for 6 seconds so they can do some burst, not many. most other classes lead up to it.

  5. #5
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    I still use Sabo effectively in PvP. Sure, it's not what it used to be but it feels slightly more balanced at least (hard to judge power when you are facing a swarm of mages/clerics). If Trion put back old Charge Booster, it'd be the best PvP rogue spec again.

    The difference is in 1.1, Champs were replaced with a multitude of mages and specifically, Pyros/Elementalists AoE insta-gib (or stun) death zones as opposed to the 4-5 seconds Champs took. Sabos always took between 6-12 seconds and you could see it coming and react at least.

    Sabos were just overnerfed because of Improved Blast Charge ignoring armor. Paragons fall into the same bucket.

    Trion needs a real QA department.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaladai View Post
    Infestation maybe with all the DoTs and enhanced burst.
    He need more preparation than a Sabo, for sure.
    it was infestation

    i had literally just been looking into the soul builder for reaver because i was thinking about leveling a warrior to tank, maybe 5 minutes before it happened.

    while i knew what infestation was supposed to do in theory, i didnt think it would hit that level of damage.

    i had to go back and stare at the zam entry for infestation and figure out how 230*4 = 2300.

    because when i went from 4k hp to greyish screen and heartbeat sound from a sword and board warrior out of nowhere, it got my "figure things out" area of my brain all fired up.

  7. #7
    Xsi
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avast View Post
    sabos real issue was the burst, it would have made more sense to make the charges do some damage, and lessen the detonate damage imo. in reality other classes put out roughly the same damage, however they have damage thats more consisteant and therefore can be healer through and countered with defensive CD's. sabs really couldnt because its just BLAM. on the other side what other class deals no damage for 6 seconds so they can do some burst, not many. most other classes lead up to it.
    The *bam* factor is still there (just in smaller parts and less likely to be a full run of crits) so healers still have a hard time reacting, so 1.1 didn't address that issue.

    The difference is post-1.1 is that healers are far more concerned and preemptively casting AoE heals now that Pyros/Elementalists are now ruling the battlefield.
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  8. #8
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    yeah the burst is still there but compare that burst to the raw damage that other classes can put up consitently and with minimal warning and you will see where i was going. the way i worded my post may haev been misleading a bit.

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    i dont understand why sabos are bad now, they had 100% armor penetration pre 1.1, now they got 50% armor penetration, whats the deal again?
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by pechkin View Post
    i dont understand why sabos are bad now, they had 100% armor penetration pre 1.1, now they got 50% armor penetration, whats the deal again?
    charge booster was also changed to be less effective

    however, the reason they lost alot of their bite is the crits, used to be if one charge crit EVERY charge crit, that has been changed, so now most combos hit in like the 3k range, rather than hitting for either 1500 or 5k.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by pechkin View Post
    i dont understand why sabos are bad now, they had 100% armor penetration pre 1.1, now they got 50% armor penetration, whats the deal again?
    Because the real damage of Blasting Charge was actually based on a bug- the 50% armor reduction was zeroing out whatever damage reduction the targets armor gave, then taking them negative.

    So, if plate gives 30% DR, Imp Blast Charge took them to -20% (30 - 50 = -20) instead of to 15% (50% of 30) damage reduction. So not only did they have 0% damage reduction from their armor, they were also taking an additional 20% damage.

    Now, this was definitely a bug that needed to be addressed, but by layering other changes on top of this, they basically had no idea what the true baseline damage of a Sab was. It was like trying to send Apollo 11 to the moon when you don't know how far away the moon is or how much the rocket weighs.

    Also note, that the people who were doing 5 different charges in their rotations were befitting the least from this bug. I actually twigged onto the bug early, and so preferred a 5x blasting rotation even with Charge Booster (because it ended up doing more damage in a lot of cases).

  12. #12
    RIFT Guide Writer Hokonoso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by derpoppinfresh View Post
    Because the real damage of Blasting Charge was actually based on a bug- the 50% armor reduction was zeroing out whatever damage reduction the targets armor gave, then taking them negative.

    So, if plate gives 30% DR, Imp Blast Charge took them to -20% (30 - 50 = -20) instead of to 15% (50% of 30) damage reduction. So not only did they have 0% damage reduction from their armor, they were also taking an additional 20% damage.

    Now, this was definitely a bug that needed to be addressed, but by layering other changes on top of this, they basically had no idea what the true baseline damage of a Sab was. It was like trying to send Apollo 11 to the moon when you don't know how far away the moon is or how much the rocket weighs.

    Also note, that the people who were doing 5 different charges in their rotations were befitting the least from this bug. I actually twigged onto the bug early, and so preferred a 5x blasting rotation even with Charge Booster (because it ended up doing more damage in a lot of cases).
    this, 99% of sabo's that were 1 shotting ppl didnt even know of this bug/exploit. the rest of us were 1 shotting everyone but tanks and pyros (GoS made blast charge do nothing). day before 1.1 came out, i took my sabo and went to port and 1 shot everyone all night long, was great fun seeing ppl shout how i was getting nerfed the next day...

    sad thing is, now it's even funnier killing ppl as sabotuer, 5x spike charge by itself will kill anyone but a pyro or tank if no heals are received... it's very fun putting it on someone and seeing them run away, then 10 seconds later seeing them die. to bad it's painfully easy to heal /cry
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by derpoppinfresh View Post
    Because the real damage of Blasting Charge was actually based on a bug- the 50% armor reduction was zeroing out whatever damage reduction the targets armor gave, then taking them negative.

    So, if plate gives 30% DR, Imp Blast Charge took them to -20% (30 - 50 = -20) instead of to 15% (50% of 30) damage reduction. So not only did they have 0% damage reduction from their armor, they were also taking an additional 20% damage.

    Now, this was definitely a bug that needed to be addressed, but by layering other changes on top of this, they basically had no idea what the true baseline damage of a Sab was. It was like trying to send Apollo 11 to the moon when you don't know how far away the moon is or how much the rocket weighs.

    Also note, that the people who were doing 5 different charges in their rotations were befitting the least from this bug. I actually twigged onto the bug early, and so preferred a 5x blasting rotation even with Charge Booster (because it ended up doing more damage in a lot of cases).
    im not sure if there is possibility of making armor less than 0, i believe it was like 30%-50%= 0, so now its 30*50%=15%. and expert mobs for example have like 15-20%, so its even less difference. may be false tho
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  14. #14
    Vod
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    Even nerfed, sabos are still better than marksman.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hokonoso View Post
    this, 99% of sabo's that were 1 shotting ppl didnt even know of this bug/exploit. the rest of us were 1 shotting everyone but tanks and pyros (GoS made blast charge do nothing). day before 1.1 came out, i took my sabo and went to port and 1 shot everyone all night long, was great fun seeing ppl shout how i was getting nerfed the next day...

    sad thing is, now it's even funnier killing ppl as sabotuer, 5x spike charge by itself will kill anyone but a pyro or tank if no heals are received... it's very fun putting it on someone and seeing them run away, then 10 seconds later seeing them die. to bad it's painfully easy to heal /cry
    i dont think it deals as much as jagged strike.

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