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Thread: Stealth and Their Effects on the COmmunity...

  1. #1
    Shadowlander
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    Default Stealth and Their Effects on the COmmunity...

    So, Trion has admitted to 'changing' the Paladin ability Balance of Power by adding a 1.5s CD to it, on top of the other nerfs that they did to it. Basically, they took one of the best abilities in the Paladin tree and nerfed it twice. The visible daamge reduction nerf was very significant in and of itself.

    Now, this is not a thread about BoP, Paladins or Warriors. It's about Stealth Nerfs and their affects on the game community...

    No one likes having their abilities nerfed. No matter how ridiculously out of line a power is, anyone who plays the class involved is never gonna be happy about it getting nerfed... Stealth Nerfing(heretofore called SN) is a whole other problem. If you make a change to my character, I can move ability points around, maybe gear differently to make up for things.

    SN's keep you from doing that. NOT ok.

    They also take away the one thing you can never get back, Trion. Trust.

    Today's MMO players are too savvy to pull this kind of thing on. When something changes, they WILL notice. Just come on out and tell us what you're doing so we can deal with the changes.

    This being said, Trion, you REALLY need to communicate better with your community. These forums are atrocious. Full of trolls and whiners. All of the bad things from WoW are here, without any of the good things(i.e. useful stickies with information about various builds, classes, gear and souls. Leveling tips, crafting info, pvp info).

    Please. No more SN's. If you make a change, don't be sneaky about it. Don't be cowards. Tell us what you're doing so we can deal with it's in game effects before we're in the middle of a dungeon going, 'WTF - what happened to all my threat/healing/dps/CC?'

    Otherwise, no one is gonna trust anything you have to say... and if we can;t trust you to be straight with us about one thing, then we can;t trust you for anything.

  2. #2
    Rift Disciple
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    This was posted somewhere else:

    The worst part is the constant worry.
    The worry in the back of PVErs minds that, next week, we might have to scrap our current loved character playstyle, reconceptualize them, and relearn how to play them. This doesn't only happen to 'FOTM' pvpers. It happens to PVErs who love playing as a certain sort of character, like a sharpshooter marksman, or a MELEE fighter.

    Bad balance (caused by not separating pve and pvp) forces us to go from being a melee fighter, to being a ranged fighter, to being a healer, to being a different melee fighter, and so on. When all we really want to be is a melee swashbuckling rogue named Balthier.
    But bad balancing won't let us get connected and invested in this character or playstyle. We constantly have to change, relearn, and stay glued to the 'upcoming patch notes'.


    This makes this game (and WoW) a headache to become immersed in.
    It forces us to distance ourselves from the game and our characters. Which makes these games much less fun, and boils it all down to basic combat grinding in instances.

    When youre forced to sever a connection with your character and playstyle, there's no fun in gearing up and playing the game with others.

    --
    Stealth nerfs increase this stress and disconnection tenfold.

  3. #3
    Champion
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    /signed

    My biggest issue with WoW was the balancing "act", which they kept up for years and bloody years. It makes life totally unenjoyable when you have to retrain yourself on how to play a role, or scrap that role entirely when it becomes unviable and find an entirely new way to play your character.

    Unless something is a glaring issue, I would ask please don't go making rampant changes just to appear to be 'active' and 'constantly working on it'. You cause more trouble and disappointment 'adjusting' or 'tweaking' skills to be in-line with a single playstyle that you want to enforce than you solve, and you take away from the flexibility of a role or calling.

  4. #4
    Ascendant Indasoth's Avatar
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    Stealth changes are a sign of a company that's either too scared to display the changes that may upset the community or a really unorganized one that can't seem to get all patch notes into one documented area.

    Either way, bad.

    Bad start for Trion. Bad start.

  5. #5
    Telaran Lucinde's Avatar
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    I was worried for a minute, I thought Trion nerfed Stealth!

    If Trion feels that a change needs to be made, they should have the freedom to do so without having to broadcast it first. I agree that nerfs will always piss people off and can lead to mistrust, but overall, I do think they will improve the game when all is said and done. I say let them do their jobs, and we'll just have to adapt and do ours as best as we can.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucinde View Post
    I was worried for a minute, I thought Trion nerfed Stealth!

    If Trion feels that a change needs to be made, they should have the freedom to do so without having to broadcast it first. I agree that nerfs will always piss people off and can lead to mistrust, but overall, I do think they will improve the game when all is said and done. I say let them do their jobs, and we'll just have to adapt and do ours as best as we can.
    Alright, some fair points, but living in constant worry that your class or playstyle is going to be hedged in over and over for the next few years gets very tiring and frustrating after a while. Been there, done that, hope it doesn't happen here as well.

  7. #7
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucubration View Post
    /signed

    My biggest issue with WoW was the balancing "act", which they kept up for years and bloody years. It makes life totally unenjoyable when you have to retrain yourself on how to play a role, or scrap that role entirely when it becomes unviable and find an entirely new way to play your character.

    Unless something is a glaring issue, I would ask please don't go making rampant changes just to appear to be 'active' and 'constantly working on it'. You cause more trouble and disappointment 'adjusting' or 'tweaking' skills to be in-line with a single playstyle that you want to enforce than you solve, and you take away from the flexibility of a role or calling.
    I agree. I grew so tired of WoW's futile balancing act. This along with the crummy community has made me only log in occasionally to talk to a few friends. I think entirely separate versions of each soul for pvp and pve is a step in the right direction to curb the endless QQ of buffing and nerfing. One might argue for people to learn to adjust or that the constant changes keeps a certain freshness to the game - perhaps - but I think overall players do not like it.
    Last edited by aurora87; 04-13-2011 at 06:09 AM.

  8. #8
    Rift Master Solbranthius's Avatar
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    I just want to be able to trust the development team. Stealth nerfs erode away at that trust.

  9. #9
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    They should do a letter to the community every week before any changes; although, I will take lower respecing costs as an apology.

  10. #10
    Telaran Karo's Avatar
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    Stop!!!! QQing about stealth is in MMOs and its the hole point of an Sin, stealth, fine a target normally a cloth or other high DPS and stun and burn them down. With out stealth and the stuns a melee rogue is just a free kill, like it is now cause Trion nerfed the DPS to worthlessness. But thats the point rogues have leather, and can be killed pretty easily if you know what you are doing in PvP. Which doesnt seem to be the cast with most people that play Rift cause you all think that Stealths to OP and crap. Its not it works like it always has in every other MMO, learn how to PvP and focus fire, PvP is about team work, just cause you think you need to kill 5 players before u die, and its normally from a stealth cause that player is paying more attention to whats going on. You people ruin games for DPS, just yell and cry to have trion take out rogues as a class, hell how about wars to cause you dont need them ether! Just cause your a bad player doesnt mean Stealth or rogues are OP Stop Crying !!!!
    "Thousands of candles can be lighted from a single candle, and the life of the candle will not be shortened. Happiness never decreases by being shared."

  11. #11
    Ascendant Indasoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karo View Post
    Stop!!!! QQing about stealth is in MMOs and its the hole point of an Sin, stealth, fine a target normally a cloth or other high DPS and stun and burn them down. With out stealth and the stuns a melee rogue is just a free kill, like it is now cause Trion nerfed the DPS to worthlessness. But thats the point rogues have leather, and can be killed pretty easily if you know what you are doing in PvP. Which doesnt seem to be the cast with most people that play Rift cause you all think that Stealths to OP and crap. Its not it works like it always has in every other MMO, learn how to PvP and focus fire, PvP is about team work, just cause you think you need to kill 5 players before u die, and its normally from a stealth cause that player is paying more attention to whats going on. You people ruin games for DPS, just yell and cry to have trion take out rogues as a class, hell how about wars to cause you dont need them ether! Just cause your a bad player doesnt mean Stealth or rogues are OP Stop Crying !!!!
    Wow, someone didn't even read the original post...

  12. #12
    Rift Disciple
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karo View Post
    Stop!!!! QQing about stealth is in MMOs and its the hole point of an Sin, stealth, fine a target normally a cloth or other high DPS and stun and burn them down. With out stealth and the stuns a melee rogue is just a free kill, like it is now cause Trion nerfed the DPS to worthlessness. But thats the point rogues have leather, and can be killed pretty easily if you know what you are doing in PvP. Which doesnt seem to be the cast with most people that play Rift cause you all think that Stealths to OP and crap. Its not it works like it always has in every other MMO, learn how to PvP and focus fire, PvP is about team work, just cause you think you need to kill 5 players before u die, and its normally from a stealth cause that player is paying more attention to whats going on. You people ruin games for DPS, just yell and cry to have trion take out rogues as a class, hell how about wars to cause you dont need them ether! Just cause your a bad player doesnt mean Stealth or rogues are OP Stop Crying !!!!
    LOL. I'm not even sure how to respond.

  13. #13
    Shadowlander
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karo View Post
    Stop!!!! QQing about stealth is in MMOs and its the hole point of an Sin, stealth, fine a target normally a cloth or other high DPS and stun and burn them down. With out stealth and the stuns a melee rogue is just a free kill, like it is now cause Trion nerfed the DPS to worthlessness. But thats the point rogues have leather, and can be killed pretty easily if you know what you are doing in PvP. Which doesnt seem to be the cast with most people that play Rift cause you all think that Stealths to OP and crap. Its not it works like it always has in every other MMO, learn how to PvP and focus fire, PvP is about team work, just cause you think you need to kill 5 players before u die, and its normally from a stealth cause that player is paying more attention to whats going on. You people ruin games for DPS, just yell and cry to have trion take out rogues as a class, hell how about wars to cause you dont need them ether! Just cause your a bad player doesnt mean Stealth or rogues are OP Stop Crying !!!!
    ...

    /slap

  14. #14
    Soulwalker
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    The biggest problem with stealth nerfs and nerfs in general is as much the fault of the players as it is the company putting out the game. In this case I put more blame on Trion only because I think they listened to the players too soon and did too much nerfing all at once. It's a bad thing in my opinion because the game has barely been out for two months and yet they've nerfed and buffed just about ever soul in the game already. They should have fixed the bugs first, which players were all for. There's still bugs in the game now, plenty of little things here and there they could fix, add or optimize. If they'd just fixed the bugs plaguing some of the classes (Champions, Saboteur, etc) and then waited a few weeks for players to adjust to the changes and see how things looked, I think everything on the forums now would be a lot more supportive of them. What we got instead was a major knee jerk reaction, sweeping changes that forced about 25% of the entire population to hunt for a totally different style of playing the game that they would now have to try to ENJOY as much as they did their previous style. Even WoW no longer usually does a huge list of changes that really mess up a class all at once. It's become a much more gradual tweaking of this skill or that skill, and while I don't think it'll ever be balanced, it upsets people a lot less.

    The thing Trion needs to understand about their own game is all the options open to them and to us, the players. Unlike WoW, if a Rogue nerf hits, it simply becomes "Ok now I swap to Mutilate spec, or Combat Spec until XXX spec is #1 again". WoW doesn't have all the souls, all the options and all the gear and roles that Rift does for one class. When I have to swap specs in WoW it takes me about 2 hours to readjust to the changes. In Rift, a major nerf to one soul, at least as I've seen it, becomes a huge change in playstyle and a real burden to relearn a class when it shouldn't be necessary if nerfs came out gradually and only after bug fixes already change how a class is played to start with. Just my 2 cents. Thanks for reading.
    Last edited by Setima; 04-13-2011 at 08:12 AM.

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