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Thread: Seeking advice: Bard and Chloromancer

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    Soulwalker
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    Default Seeking advice: Bard and Chloromancer

    Hello!

    I am new to Rift and wondering about the Bard and Chloromancer Souls.

    First: PvE is the most important aspect of any given mmo for me. Being able to successfuly PvP is a nice bonus, but not essential.

    In the past i liked to heal and support my Group. I prefer ranged classes over melee, like self heal abiliies and a spec (possibly offspec) that is good at soloing for example Elite mobs or smaller group quests. (usually this is a tank spec).

    Now the mechanic of Chloromancer and Bard sound very appealing to me: Healing while doing damage.

    I understand that the Chloromancer has his focus more on the Healing part, while Bards focus more on the support through buffs and debuffs.
    The thing i would like to know is how effective are these classes in endgame. Are they useful in larger raids, since their healing was reduced to only 5 targets? Are the Bard buffs really that much better than the buffs other classes bring? The only really outstanding things i see is a 13% (talented) ability cost reduction and Verse of Joy.
    Also: I don't like it if i run out of mana easyly. I see that Chloromancer has 2 mana recovery tools. One which returns mana when the tank is damaged, the other returning 60% mana over 30seconds or until the Damageshield effeckt is broken (did i understand that correctly?). Are they enough to not run out of mana in longer Bossfights, like raids or Invasions?

    Thanks

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    Ascendant Ticklepink's Avatar
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    Chloro is very useful..I'm sure bard is too..their buffs are invaluable. Next toon I roll will prolly be bard.

    But yea you wont be disappointed in Chloro.. Id suggest pairing it with a dps soul in your earlier levels so you can wade thru mobs.
    FortyFive sigbanners ~Harrow~

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    Plane Walker Dhamp's Avatar
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    Both are vital in raids, but a raid will only take one Bard.

    You should also look at Archon, it's another vital support soul, again a raid will only take one, but it will allow you to take a chloromancer role as well.

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    Soulwalker
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    What about mana? Are Chloromancers struggling with mana in longer fights or is it no problem to manage?

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    Rift Disciple Magenta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taicho View Post
    Hello!

    I am new to Rift and wondering about the Bard and Chloromancer Souls.

    First: PvE is the most important aspect of any given mmo for me. Being able to successfuly PvP is a nice bonus, but not essential.

    In the past i liked to heal and support my Group. I prefer ranged classes over melee, like self heal abiliies and a spec (possibly offspec) that is good at soloing for example Elite mobs or smaller group quests. (usually this is a tank spec).

    Now the mechanic of Chloromancer and Bard sound very appealing to me: Healing while doing damage.

    I understand that the Chloromancer has his focus more on the Healing part, while Bards focus more on the support through buffs and debuffs.
    The thing i would like to know is how effective are these classes in endgame. Are they useful in larger raids, since their healing was reduced to only 5 targets? Are the Bard buffs really that much better than the buffs other classes bring? The only really outstanding things i see is a 13% (talented) ability cost reduction and Verse of Joy.
    Also: I don't like it if i run out of mana easyly. I see that Chloromancer has 2 mana recovery tools. One which returns mana when the tank is damaged, the other returning 60% mana over 30seconds or until the Damageshield effeckt is broken (did i understand that correctly?). Are they enough to not run out of mana in longer Bossfights, like raids or Invasions?

    Thanks
    Both are actually equally needed. Bards give buffs, debuffs, and healing assistance as well as some DPS, but Chloros can provide a giant amount of healing to ONLY one target. Their MT heals DO NOT STACK with other Chloros.

    With a Rogue you can:

    Tank
    Range DPS
    Melee DPS
    Support Heal and Buff/Debuff

    With a Mage you can:

    Range DPS
    Support Buff/Debuff
    Maintank Heal

    Pick whichever you like the most, but I'd say it's probably harder to secure a good raid spot as a Chloro compared to a Bard. In 5 person groups, both are exceptional although only Chloros can main heal a 5 person group.
    Last edited by Magenta; 04-11-2011 at 03:19 AM.

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    Plane Walker Dhamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taicho View Post
    What about mana? Are Chloromancers struggling with mana in longer fights or is it no problem to manage?
    If you sub into Warlock (better DPS, hence better healing) or Archon (better utility, 5 man ONLY - do not role this in a raid) you basically have infinite mana. Sacrifice Life: Mana (-15% health +15% mana on use) and Leeching Flames (10% mana drain) respectively.

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    Rift Disciple Magenta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taicho View Post
    What about mana? Are Chloromancers struggling with mana in longer fights or is it no problem to manage?
    Mana is fine with a Chloro assuming you have the correct spec. Edit: You are not limited to Warlock or Archon like others might have said. You channel elements, for example, in Elemental. Most combinations would be fine with mana. For raiding, I wouldn't do anything other than Chloro/Lock though unless you have a wierd raid comp.
    Last edited by Magenta; 04-11-2011 at 03:32 AM.

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    Rift Disciple Magenta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dhamp View Post
    Both are vital in raids, but a raid will only take one Bard.

    You should also look at Archon, it's another vital support soul, again a raid will only take one, but it will allow you to take a chloromancer role as well.
    Waa? Unless you have multiple tanks taking a lot of damage, stacking Bards over Chloros is better IMO. If healing is not an issue, you wouldn't stack either.
    Last edited by Magenta; 04-11-2011 at 03:33 AM.

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    Plane Walker Roseanna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taicho View Post
    The thing i would like to know is how effective are these classes in endgame.
    So far I've experienced expert rifts and T1/T2 expert dungeons. I haven't gotten into raiding or raid rifts yet, so I'm not sure there.

    I'm a mage who used to be primarily dps and recently made the swap over to more of a focus on chloro. I always ask if a rogue in party wants to swap to bard with me, and one usually does. My usual party makeup is a cleric tanking on justicar, me main healing on chloro, a rogue doing his thing on bard, and any 2 dps. This has carried us more than enough through the content I listed above. Healing, for the most part, has been very smooth. With vile spores being my bread n butter, it's a reliable, rhythmic party heal every 2 seconds. Synthesis and all its perks handle spike damage on the tank, lifegiving veil handles damage on everyone else, then all the other buttons to throw in to patch things up when things get hairy.

    The bard is a great compliment to what I do. The buffs add to dps, survivability (the magic resistance buff is a huge help for our justicar tank who is squishy to magic), etc. Verse of joy greatly helps the whole party. Movement speed is a godsend in some fights. And the healing that they're able to toss out when I'm stunned, feared, "oh crud my mob died I need a new target", etc. has saved us from many wipes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Taicho View Post
    Are the Bard buffs really that much better than the buffs other classes bring?
    I can't speak for raiding, but in T1/T2 experts I would pick a bard over an archon any day, if I had the choice. (Sorry archons. <3) In a 5-man there is only so much space, and while archons are great and I would love them in a bigger party, their buffs in my opinion just don't compare to a bard's. One thing I do like of archon as a chloro though is their attack/spellcasting speed increase. Faster casts mean more heals come out. They also do add to survivability and dps. They have a handy shield they can put on the tank. But, at least as far as I know of, no healing. And that to me is the #1 place that the archon falls behind the bard... the bard is dual purpose - buffing and offhealing. The archon is single purpose, buffing. In a bigger party I would love an archon at all times. But in a 5-man, if a bard is available to me, I'll pick the bard instead.

    Quote Originally Posted by Taicho View Post
    I don't like it if i run out of mana easyly. I see that Chloromancer has 2 mana recovery tools. One which returns mana when the tank is damaged, the other returning 60% mana over 30seconds or until the Damageshield effeckt is broken (did i understand that correctly?). Are they enough to not run out of mana in longer Bossfights, like raids or Invasions?
    I worried about this before I tried chloro out at level 50. We have an aura that reduces ability costs by 10% for starters. Bards tossing out verse of joy will help. With those two things, all I ever use is turtle (the shield one). I pop it when I'm around 1/4 to 1/2 mana left and it fills me right up. I've barely ever had to use the one that I put on the tank, so there's that. It's held me through expert boss fights, invasion boss fights, the works.

    If you're concerned, here's my build with 2 extra helpers for mana: clicky link. The 9 points into warlock will give you a few handy things. You can swap health for mana, then charge to health. You can do it infinitely, and in-combat. If you're out of options, hurt yourself for mana. Elementalist I did because parties tend to rush on ahead, they don't like to wait for me to be getting my mana back between each pull. 6 points into ele gets an out-of-combat charge to mana skill that's nice and quick. It also gets 5% crit and a shield that you can pop if you find yourself taking damage. Warlock gets you 25% more charge, which you can either use on cooldown skills that take charge, or you can convert it to 19% more magic damage with entropic veil. It also gets you opportunity (decreases the next skill's cast time to zero)... which I find to be a godsend. Even with only 4 points into it, sometimes it procs up to 4-5 times in a row for me. I use it to get off quick vile spores or natures touches. It's procced at some rather opportune times and saved us from wipes.

    Overall, go with what's fun for you. Rogue for tanking, dpsing, and bard options... mage for dpsing, healing, buffing, and crowd control options. Or better yet, one of each! Hehe. Hope I helped some.
    Last edited by Roseanna; 04-11-2011 at 03:36 AM.

  10. #10
    Plane Walker Dhamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magenta View Post
    Waa? Unless you have multiple tanks taking a lot of damage, stacking Bards over Chloros is better IMO.
    Any bard past 1 gets to spam Cadence (or take the edge off Coda/Motif maintenance). (Assuming you have the obligatory Archon)

    Any chloro past 1 brings spot heals, better DPS, better healing, combat resses...

  11. #11
    Rift Disciple Magenta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dhamp View Post
    Any bard past 1 gets to spam Cadence (or take the edge off Coda/Motif maintenance). (Assuming you have the obligatory Archon)

    Any chloro past 1 brings spot heals, better DPS, better healing, combat resses...
    No, a Chloro without Synthesis will get outhealed by a Bard, and thats excluding the buffs the Bard brings to the table. And if one Bard dies, you have the second to continue to buff. The DPS is higher, that is true... which is why I said if healing isn't an issue, that person wouldn't be a Bard or a Chloro. Unless you have multiple tanks that require Synthesis, I can't imagine why you'd do it the way you suggest.

    Edit: The battle rez is nice though, you have a point there!
    Last edited by Magenta; 04-11-2011 at 03:46 AM.

  12. #12
    Soulwalker
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    Thanks a lot for your replies, you all really helped a lot.

    I played both roles to the mid 20s. They are both really fun and i enjoy them in instance groups.
    Now that i know they are also still useful in endgame settings, i can enjoy leveling them even more!

    The most annoying negative aspect is the boring and repetive sound of Cadence with the bard. It really starts to get annoying after a while. I can not turn it off individually, and i can not play without game sounds either. I just need to hear whats going on around me.
    I really wish the devs would add something like 5 or more (the more the better) different tunes for Cadence that are played randomly
    Also, the lower range on the Bard abilities are a small gameplay drawback.

    I think i will bring them both to the mid 30s before i decide which one will be my main.

    At the moment i am leaning more towards the mage, since my focus lies on ranged classes and the mage offers more different ranged souls than the rogue does. I can also see some nice soloing potential with one of the pet souls combined with a Chloromancer soul.

    Archon and Bard buffs don't stack, do they? So you would usually only bring one of them?

  13. #13
    Rift Disciple Magenta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taicho View Post
    The most annoying negative aspect is the boring and repetive sound of Cadence with the bard. It really starts to get annoying after a while.
    That is an interesting way to decide! But the Chloro metal "clang" on each spell cast isn't any better honestly!

    Quote Originally Posted by Taicho View Post
    At the moment i am leaning more towards the mage, since my focus lies on ranged classes and the mage offers more different ranged souls than the rogue does. I can also see some nice soloing potential with one of the pet souls combined with a Chloromancer soul.
    More Ranged souls doesn't really mean it has better solo potential. Keep in mind, the Mage souls require significant investment of points to get a pet higher than level 30 or so... so if you plan to invest most of your points in Chloro, do not expect to have a usable tanking pet and CC. The good thing is, you don't have to use the same spec for main healing and soloing. I think you will be equally successful with Rogue or Mage when it comes to this. Maybe even more-so after the Rogue adjustments that are coming out way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Taicho View Post
    Archon and Bard buffs don't stack, do they? So you would usually only bring one of them?
    Equal buffs and debuffs do not stack. Take a look at each class and you will see they are different types of buffs and debuffs. If they are identical, they are not intended to stack. But generally speaking, yes, they stack.
    Last edited by Magenta; 04-11-2011 at 04:08 AM.

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    Plane Walker Dhamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magenta View Post
    No, a Chloro without Synthesis will get outhealed by a Bard, and thats excluding the buffs the Bard brings to the table. And if one Bard dies, you have the second to continue to buff. The DPS is higher, that is true... which is why I said if healing isn't an issue, that person wouldn't be a Bard or a Chloro. Unless you have multiple tanks that require Synthesis, I can't imagine why you'd do it the way you suggest.

    Edit: The battle rez is nice though, you have a point there!
    The second bard doesn't bring any buffs if your group is set up properly though.

    The second chloro can bring on demand heals.

    Whether or not the trickle heal is higher is academic (although unless bards do between 80 and 100% of a chloros DPS they won't be) , on demand heals always trump trickle.

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    Rift Disciple Ydyp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taicho View Post
    Archon and Bard buffs don't stack, do they? So you would usually only bring one of them?
    Depending on what buff, the bards endurance buff for instance has no problem and stacks flawlessly with that of the archon (that is a +52 +48 endurance for the whole raid). The athems though don't stack with the archon's aura's, but an archon doesn't get the cost reducting that the bard get as well. So communication is key there, the bards in my guild already know what to put up as athems when I'm in there as chloro/archon to optimize the buffing.

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