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Thread: DPS vs Survivability

  1. #1
    Ascendant Talamare's Avatar
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    Default DPS vs Survivability

    The best survivability mechanic in the game, in EVERY game is called

    RANGE

    Highest Survivability class then becomes Ranged Clerics then Ranged Rogues then Mages then Warriors then Melee Clerics then Melee Rogues

    Oh wait but that isnt the only factor!
    There is also Utility
    Which is roughly the following Mages = Clerics > Rogues > Warriors



    Highest DPS should be then
    Melee Rogues
    Warriors = Melee Clerics
    Mages = Ranged Rogues
    Ranged Clerics
    Last edited by Talamare; 04-08-2011 at 01:51 PM.
    It's not a damage meters fault you can't hit a certain dps and others similar to you can, it's the fault of your bad gear, bad spec, or bad rotation. So stop getting mad at the meters and invest some time into not being bad.

    DPS Mathcraft - How damage works
    DPS Mathcraft - STR vs DEX
    DPS Mathcraft - Armor
    Warrior DPS Calculator *UPDATED* v0.2
    Paragon Rebalancing Suggestion

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    I stopped reading when you said the best survivability is range.

    There's dozens of things that make range insignificant.

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    Ascendant Talamare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tranquility View Post
    I stopped reading when you said the best survivability is range.

    There's dozens of things that make range insignificant.
    In PvP - Even if you charge someone into melee range, it just means that you a single melee in the center of the enemy team (aka you are going to be focused fire). Then again DPS isnt a factor in PvP, massive burst even with low dps will win most of the time

    In PvE - There is no question that there are several boss mechanics that screw over melee more than ranged
    Last edited by Talamare; 04-08-2011 at 02:03 PM.
    It's not a damage meters fault you can't hit a certain dps and others similar to you can, it's the fault of your bad gear, bad spec, or bad rotation. So stop getting mad at the meters and invest some time into not being bad.

    DPS Mathcraft - How damage works
    DPS Mathcraft - STR vs DEX
    DPS Mathcraft - Armor
    Warrior DPS Calculator *UPDATED* v0.2
    Paragon Rebalancing Suggestion

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    Then your ratings and classifications are just terrible if we are going PvE.

    Clerics offer no utility that Mages don't. Actually less.
    Rogues offer a decent amount of support, including sap etc.
    Warriors are the only ones that offer literally nothing besides DPS

    So...

    Warriors should always be the highest.

    There's no difference in survivability between melee rogues and melee warriors in PvE. They both die in 2 hits to trash, and 1 to bosses.
    Last edited by Tranquility; 04-08-2011 at 02:16 PM.

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    Rift Disciple
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    I would say outside of healing the biggest survivability mechanic in the game is stealth.

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    Ascendant Talamare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zansobar View Post
    I would say outside of healing the biggest survivability mechanic in the game is stealth.
    That may be true in PvP, but pointless in PvE

    You cant dps while stealthed
    It's not a damage meters fault you can't hit a certain dps and others similar to you can, it's the fault of your bad gear, bad spec, or bad rotation. So stop getting mad at the meters and invest some time into not being bad.

    DPS Mathcraft - How damage works
    DPS Mathcraft - STR vs DEX
    DPS Mathcraft - Armor
    Warrior DPS Calculator *UPDATED* v0.2
    Paragon Rebalancing Suggestion

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    Rift Master Victus Tryggr Wolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talamare View Post
    That may be true in PvP, but pointless in PvE

    You cant dps while stealthed
    You can't dps while legging it from a Warrior with his Bullrush up either.
    "Never violate a woman, nor harm a child. Do not lie, cheat or steal. These things are for lesser men. Protect the weak against the evil strong. And never allow thoughts of gain to lead you into the pursuit of evil"

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    Anyone who plays a lot of Heroes of Newerth or League of Legends would see where my observations are going. A lot can be learned from games with pvp at their heart.

    Any of the good pvp games I have played, mele has done more single target dps, because it actually has to close.

    Any game where it doesn't is not going to have good pvp.

    Another mechanism that can help mele is lifesteal on mele weapons. This would give mele the survivability it needs to get the job done without resorting to giving it double the damage of range.

    More mobility. Any game with lots of CC is going to have to give mele something. Not just a gap closer but something to get the job done when they are in range otherwise they will just get CC'd again. The Sab AOE slow is one of the worst thought ideas in the game. Same with the length of the cooldowns on most CC.

  9. #9
    Rift Master Victus Tryggr Wolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talamare View Post
    The best survivability mechanic in the game, in EVERY game is called
    Crowd Control
    "Never violate a woman, nor harm a child. Do not lie, cheat or steal. These things are for lesser men. Protect the weak against the evil strong. And never allow thoughts of gain to lead you into the pursuit of evil"

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    General of Telara
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    Melee Rogues should do a lot less damage than warriors because they actually do have some utility, whereas DPS warriors usually have close to 0 utility.

    So in terms of DPS, Melee Warriors >>> Melee Rogues = Melee Clerics

    There if fixed it for ya. Oh wait you were trying to skew it so that the calling you play would come out on top of all the others? Darn, my bad.
    Last edited by Wenry; 04-08-2011 at 03:58 PM.

  11. #11
    Rift Master Victus Tryggr Wolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wenry View Post
    Melee Rogues should do a lot less damage than warriors because they actually do have some utility, whereas DPS warriors usually have close to 0 utility.

    So in terms of DPS, Melee Warriors >>> Melee Rogues = Melee Clerics

    There if fixed it for ya. Oh wait you were trying to skew it so that the calling you play would come out on top of all the others? Darn, my bad.
    Melee dps Rogues have great Utilities? They must have forgot that when they created the souls. Unless you mean stuns/dazes?

    If thats so then Warrior dps souls also have utility too since they can stun, aoe fear and root/snare targets.
    "Never violate a woman, nor harm a child. Do not lie, cheat or steal. These things are for lesser men. Protect the weak against the evil strong. And never allow thoughts of gain to lead you into the pursuit of evil"

    The Code of Druss the Legend

  12. #12
    Ascendant Talamare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wenry View Post
    There if fixed it for ya. Oh wait you were trying to skew it so that the calling you play would come out on top of all the others? Darn, my bad.
    Clearly I play a Rogue
    Last edited by Talamare; 04-08-2011 at 04:07 PM.
    It's not a damage meters fault you can't hit a certain dps and others similar to you can, it's the fault of your bad gear, bad spec, or bad rotation. So stop getting mad at the meters and invest some time into not being bad.

    DPS Mathcraft - How damage works
    DPS Mathcraft - STR vs DEX
    DPS Mathcraft - Armor
    Warrior DPS Calculator *UPDATED* v0.2
    Paragon Rebalancing Suggestion

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victus Tryggr Wolf View Post
    Melee dps Rogues have great Utilities? They must have forgot that when they created the souls. Unless you mean stuns/dazes?

    If thats so then Warrior dps souls also have utility too since they can stun, aoe fear and root/snare targets.
    My point is that I can make baseless claims about who should be able to the most DPS too.

  14. #14
    Prophet of Telara NatashaK's Avatar
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    In a group PvE environment, each of the four classes should be capable of the same dps. You should be able to trade off dps for utility. e.g. tank, heal, buff, whatever

    Note also that dps, on average, over 5 minutes or so, is totally different from burst. Some classes might run around a lot and then blow their whole bar in 3 seconds. This is by design and generally what normalizes the melee vs ranged discussion.

    Glass cannon specs should generally be difficult to solo equal level mobs with. Swapping one or two souls for something to provide more utility / survivability makes things much easier.

    1v1, defense trumps offense. DPS is far down any kind of what's important.

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    Quote Originally Posted by solarbear View Post
    Anyone who plays a lot of Heroes of Newerth or League of Legends would see where my observations are going. A lot can be learned from games with pvp at their heart.
    You're using DotA as the epitome of balance and game mechanics?

    lol

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