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Thread: @Hartsman and other Devs... Clerics still want attention :(

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    Default @Hartsman and other Devs... Clerics still want attention :(

    1. This does not belong in the Cleric board. I am linking to now 2 threads that are in the Cleric board. We, Clerics, are aware of these threads and the issues presented in them. The reason it's being posted in the CoT board is to bring it more attention from non-Clerics. So if you will, please do not move it. It's in the correct place.

    2. This was started by an outstanding member of the Cleric community who has in as peaceful a manner as possible provided constructive feedback and a 28+ page long thread with a civil-minded discussion about the problems faced by Clerics insofar as PvE healing. Yes, to be clear with big huge type and bold font:
      THIS DISCUSSION IS PURELY ABOUT CLERIC HEALING IN PvE AND MOSTLY CONTRASTING THAT WITH CHLOROMANCER UTILITY, DPS, AND THE FACT THAT THEY CAN STILL OUTHEAL US WHILE BRINGING MORE TO THE TABLE
      So please do not bring up "clerics OP, takes 4 people to kill 1!!" -- you're off topic, and you need to L2P most likely.

    3. We just want confirmation from devs that Clerics will receive some kind of retuning for PvE healing to bring us in line with what Chloros are capable of doing. After all, we are advertised as the "healing" class and have far more healing souls than any other calling (which have poor synergies, are highly repetitive, and scale pretty horribly).

    And finally I now link to the other 2 threads and re-post what Brolly has posted:

    Quote Originally Posted by Brolly View Post
    Basically I started this thread as somewhat of a rant, something to channel my frustration into after having a bad day healing. But as I saw others begin to post, I decided I would attempt to make it something more. No, this isn't an "OP CLERICS NURF" or "CLERICS BAD BUFF" thread, but rather an attempt to have a civilized discussion about the current mechanics of healing clerics in PvE content. While the thread does have its trolls and angry responses, I have attempted to maintain the peace in the thread in order to provide ideas for any dev who may read it.

    So, what I'm trying to say is that I didn't expect this big of a response from the community, but it happened. Now, I don't expect a response from you guys as well, but if anyone does read the thread, please read all of it (skip past the trolls and angry spam) and post opinions or comments.

    Some are crying for a buff. Some simply want mechanics changed. But all just want any response from a member of Trion, so that we know that you are/nt working on it.

    Oh, and I'm a sad panda because I think this thread will be locked by a forum mod before any dev sees it.
    Link to the original thread:
    http://forums.riftgame.com/showthrea...ant-attention-)

    Link to the mentioned thread (28+ pages):
    http://forums.riftgame.com/showthrea...-need-love-too.

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    I agree that cleric healing in pvp is very difficult. Thats why I melee dps. And yes, it does take 4 people to kill me, and I love every second of it.

    "...But the gods of the Vigil intervened. Their messengers went among the fallen and Ascended the worthy, not for their virtue, but for their MIGHT! In you, they place their faith, their hope and their power. You are our salvation. YOU are a Guardian."

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    Prophet of Telara Corian's Avatar
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    1. who cares about pve balance. it's designed to be beaten if you can beat it then it's balanced

    2. making cleric healing better in pve makes it better in pvp, and the 4 clerics in my battlegroup that actually bother healing their teams are already dominant
    This is why we can't have nice things.

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    Shield of Telara kidbs's Avatar
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    Cleric dps (especially caster dps) needs to be tuned upwards as well. Inquisitors should be capable of outputting as much single target damage as the strongest mage souls since it is after all a purely dps soul.

    Upping the spell coefficient on Bolt of Judgment would be a good start considering it's coefficient is based on a 1.5 second cast time regardless of whether you take Castigation or not. Also fix Corporal Punishment so that DoT crits activate it (other than the initial tick).
    Bokor - Cleric (Warrior Priest)

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    Prophet of Telara CericX's Avatar
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    Seriously, give it a couple more weeks, maybe 30 days. With incoming mage nerfs due to FoTM we might see a bit of a swing. So far I've not had anyone replace me as main healer with a chloro so we're probably not THAT bad off yet. Whether thats because most chloro's don't know the power of thier heals or because of greater gear requirements to main heal as chloro or what I've no way to say.

    Also, for the two posters above who simply posted to troll, SHAME ON YOU.
    **NOT you kidbs, you snuck in while I was posting**
    Last edited by CericX; 04-08-2011 at 07:20 AM.

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    Sword of Telara Atreiu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cinos View Post
    I agree that cleric healing in pvp is very difficult. Thats why I melee dps. And yes, it does take 4 people to kill me, and I love every second of it.
    Clerics healing in pvp is Hard.


    HaHA what a comedian, for a moment you caught me.

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    No, no, inq dps does not need to be turned up. Why? Because just a few points in Sent gives us the best instant heal in the game, and a few more gives us 20% crit buff. I know a lot of you probably dont remember what beta 4 was, but in beta 4.. I was truly unkillable. Ever.

    They nerfed us once because we had more dps then anyone, and we had great heals.

    "...But the gods of the Vigil intervened. Their messengers went among the fallen and Ascended the worthy, not for their virtue, but for their MIGHT! In you, they place their faith, their hope and their power. You are our salvation. YOU are a Guardian."

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    Quote Originally Posted by CericX View Post
    Seriously, give it a couple more weeks, maybe 30 days. With incoming mage nerfs due to FoTM we might see a bit of a swing. So far I've not had anyone replace me as main healer with a chloro so we're probably not THAT bad off yet. Whether thats because most chloro's don't know the power of thier heals or because of greater gear requirements to main heal as chloro or what I've no way to say.

    Also, for the two posters above who simply posted to troll, SHAME ON YOU.
    **NOT you kidbs, you snuck in while I was posting**
    Well our DPS balancing is a moot point, we've wanted a little boost to bring us in line but it seems like everyone else is being nerfed into the ground so that we're nearly average now. As for the current state of healing, chloros with good gear are hands-down better at everything we do (except aoe cleansing? ). I, too, haven't been replaced with a chloro and doubt that I will because running guildies -- I don't need most of the gear from T2s except tanking chain, I can solo-heal most of it, I know all of the fights, and our mages think it's too stressful to mainheal .

    I can hope that with the Mage QQ that chloro nerfs will be had, and maybe they'll take the existing cleric discussion into account when considering balancing, but it can't be too hard to get a dev to say they're thinking about us.

    I won't bother responding to the troll posts here as we've already addressed all of that in the linked thread(s).

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    Prophet of Telara CericX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jMerliN View Post
    Well our DPS balancing is a moot point, we've wanted a little boost to bring us in line but it seems like everyone else is being nerfed into the ground so that we're nearly average now. As for the current state of healing, chloros with good gear are hands-down better at everything we do (except aoe cleansing? ). I, too, haven't been replaced with a chloro and doubt that I will because running guildies -- I don't need most of the gear from T2s except tanking chain, I can solo-heal most of it, I know all of the fights, and our mages think it's too stressful to mainheal .

    I can hope that with the Mage QQ that chloro nerfs will be had, and maybe they'll take the existing cleric discussion into account when considering balancing, but it can't be too hard to get a dev to say they're thinking about us.

    I won't bother responding to the troll posts here as we've already addressed all of that in the linked thread(s).
    If I remember how the chloro heals work it is all based on damage, so a change to that damage might change the output of the healing as well. Or taking that into consideration when they look at the mage class as a whole they might rebalance that aspect if they drop overall DPS or possibly some of the synergies that are effecting things. It might be a simple change to a synergy that dramatically changes the class, kind of like the 100dps hit the BM's just took when the pet stacking got fixed. Dunno, just saying give it a bit as mages will be undergoing some serious scrutiny by everyone very soon.

    Also I second the vote to bring cleric\mage DPS in line. Baseline us against the warriors ^^

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    This fell off the front page somehow.

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    I'd be quiet if I were you, the next time the cleric gets any dev attention it will be for a good nerfing session.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aux View Post
    I'd be quiet if I were you, the next time the cleric gets any dev attention it will be for a good nerfing session.
    Then all we have to do is QQ that everyone else is OP and that we're massively UP (much like mages did) and then we get our patch that makes us able to 1-shot people and/or heal for 15k on crit?

    Can't wait .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Atreiu View Post
    Clerics healing in pvp is Hard.


    HaHA what a comedian, for a moment you caught me.
    It's hard against good players. If you're terrible of course healing against you will be easy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cinos View Post
    No, no, inq dps does not need to be turned up. Why? Because just a few points in Sent gives us the best instant heal in the game, and a few more gives us 20% crit buff. I know a lot of you probably dont remember what beta 4 was, but in beta 4.. I was truly unkillable. Ever.

    They nerfed us once because we had more dps then anyone, and we had great heals.
    The point is, however, that IF a player invests all of his available talent points into offensive souls and not healing ones (since there are 4 offensive souls compared to 3 healing ones), the damage output should be equivalent when taking all other available utility into consideration. How is an Inquisitor/Cabalist/Templar, just to give you an example, unkillable? Is Vex and Harsh Discipline going to cut it against 3-6k crits? Probably not unless you're being attacked by a baddie with a bad internet connection. I highly doubt that a level 50 Inq/Cab has anywhere near the damage dealing capabilities of a Pyromancer (not that I'd want that) and is less durable when taking GoSkill into account. Then again, only being level 44...I can't be sure of that.

    There really needs to be better synergy within the damage dealing souls to ensure that if you spec solely for offense on your Cleric that you have comparable effectiveness in regards to dealing damage. Ranged DPS isn't terrible but could use some tweaks. Melee DPS is terrible comparatively speaking and probably needs a complete overhaul...all imho, of course.
    Last edited by Enigmatik1J; 04-08-2011 at 10:14 AM.
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    Bump.

    So far, when running T1's and T2's, I have yet to see a Chloro Main Heal it. Most Chloro's get nervous and either back out, or dont realize how undergeared they trully are. I don't believe that they will be replacing us as main healers any time soon.

    I also agree that our DPS in Inquisitor needs to be buffed up. Were lacking compared to most other pure dps souls.

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