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Thread: Pyro is OP ALSO without the red orb

  1. #1
    Sword of Telara
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    Default Pyro is OP ALSO without the red orb

    people dont get it:
    A)red orb increase the spell damage/AP but it does not make you deal x2 damage.
    B)even if it would make you deal x2 damage 8k hit is still 4k hit! + inferno = instant dead in 1 GCD

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nodisplay View Post
    people dont get it:
    A)red orb increase the spell damage/AP but it does not make you deal x2 damage.
    B)even if it would make you deal x2 damage 8k hit is still 4k hit! + inferno = instant dead in 1 GCD
    People need to understand what a designer intends for a class before making complains on the forum. Pyros are supposed to be the major DPS soul of the mage calling. Their damage is not the problem. The survivability is.
    Quote Originally Posted by Detill5869 View Post
    5000 damage reminds me why I started a mage. can't wait to hit 50 and kill lots of players in pvp with my 5000 damage attacks.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delolith View Post
    People need to understand what a designer intends for a class before making complains on the forum. Pyros are supposed to be the major DPS soul of the mage calling. Their damage is not the problem. The survivability is.
    DPS != Burst

    if they kill in one hit they should also die in one hit.
    (which they dont...)

  4. #4
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    yea they are the dmg dealer of the mage calling so tell that to all the rogues and warriors who's dps was utterly destroyed and given to the pyro's.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackabyss View Post
    yea they are the dmg dealer of the mage calling so tell that to all the rogues and warriors who's dps was utterly destroyed and given to the pyro's.
    Sorry but I play a warrior and I can still pull 700-800 DPS even in a not 100% DPS optimized build that I use for PvP. So who's damage was destroyed?
    Quote Originally Posted by Detill5869 View Post
    5000 damage reminds me why I started a mage. can't wait to hit 50 and kill lots of players in pvp with my 5000 damage attacks.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delolith View Post
    Sorry but I play a warrior and I can still pull 700-800 DPS even in a not 100% DPS optimized build that I use for PvP. So who's damage was destroyed?
    rogues suck

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nodisplay View Post
    rogues suck
    Maybe you should speak for yourself. You have to understand that they cannot just increase the DPS of all rogue types. DPS should be increased in rogues that are unable to stunlock for 5+ seconds. They did they exact same thing to Champions. Champions that can stun (and not the 5 seconds they did in the past) cannot pull my damage numbers.

    I have pretty decent gear (T1 and some T2 PvP gear, Brigadier's weapon) and over 30+k kills in Warfronts. It is not random that my biggest issues especially in 1 vs 1 situations arise from Justicars and some NB/Assa chain stunning builds. In PvP, DPS doesn't mean anything when you can stun someone. If you could stun someone for 5 seconds and still pull 800 DPS then lol. Wanna do the math?

    DPS for rogues has to be given in combinations that cannot stun for 5 seconds. I would accept a 500-600 DPS profile on stunning rogues...but I think that is already possible with proper gear.

    So only one comment. Get better at playing your character.
    Quote Originally Posted by Detill5869 View Post
    5000 damage reminds me why I started a mage. can't wait to hit 50 and kill lots of players in pvp with my 5000 damage attacks.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delolith View Post
    Maybe you should speak for yourself. You have to understand that they cannot just increase the DPS of all rogue types. DPS should be increased in rogues that are unable to stunlock for 5+ seconds. They did they exact same thing to Champions. Champions that can stun (and not the 5 seconds they did in the past) cannot pull my damage numbers.

    I have pretty decent gear (T1 and some T2 PvP gear, Brigadier's weapon) and over 30+k kills in Warfronts. It is not random that my biggest issues especially in 1 vs 1 situations arise from Justicars and some NB/Assa chain stunning builds. In PvP, DPS doesn't mean anything when you can stun someone. If you could stun someone for 5 seconds and still pull 800 DPS then lol. Wanna do the math?

    DPS for rogues has to be given in combinations that cannot stun for 5 seconds. I would accept a 500-600 DPS profile on stunning rogues...but I think that is already possible with proper gear.

    So only one comment. Get better at playing your character.
    please tell me which rogue spec can stun longer than 4 sec?
    which you just "Break Free" out of it....
    also rogues start with jagged not paralyze strike or else their damage will be lower than the lowest possible.

    edit: oh and i prefer to just 1 shot people(hm hm pyro) instead of stun and fight
    Last edited by Nodisplay; 04-07-2011 at 02:05 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Delolith View Post
    Maybe you should speak for yourself. You have to understand that they cannot just increase the DPS of all rogue types. DPS should be increased in rogues that are unable to stunlock for 5+ seconds. They did they exact same thing to Champions. Champions that can stun (and not the 5 seconds they did in the past) cannot pull my damage numbers.

    I have pretty decent gear (T1 and some T2 PvP gear, Brigadier's weapon) and over 30+k kills in Warfronts. It is not random that my biggest issues especially in 1 vs 1 situations arise from Justicars and some NB/Assa chain stunning builds. In PvP, DPS doesn't mean anything when you can stun someone. If you could stun someone for 5 seconds and still pull 800 DPS then lol. Wanna do the math?

    DPS for rogues has to be given in combinations that cannot stun for 5 seconds. I would accept a 500-600 DPS profile on stunning rogues...but I think that is already possible with proper gear.

    So only one comment. Get better at playing your character.
    there is no stunlocking, an assassin gets 1 incombat stun, which you also get DR against, which makes you immune to any further stun, also most souls have "makes cc work 1 second shorter against you" and most players have pvp soul as ofspec, so break free is there, although on 2 min cd.

    also rogues cant cc pyros
    Last edited by Selo; 04-07-2011 at 02:35 AM.
    http://sigcdn.siglaunch.com/sigs/rift/sig.php?sig_id=127292

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nodisplay View Post
    people dont get it:
    A)red orb increase the spell damage/AP but it does not make you deal x2 damage.
    B)even if it would make you deal x2 damage 8k hit is still 4k hit! + inferno = instant dead in 1 GCD
    The issue here is, 100% spell power in many cases would actually more than double your damage. Provided it works like the rest of spell power, it's added to your base damage then multiplied by all other effects. Some of which are additive, and some of which are multiplicative.

    I have 900 Spell power (mind you, in pve gear). As a sc/lock, 1 spell power should be a .2 dps increase, just like it should be for every other else. 1 spell power in practice however, works out to about a .7 dps increase.

    Doubling my spell power would about double my dps (about ~630-650 on a dummy, unbuffed), making it jump to over 1200.

    Really the way to "fix" pyromancers is:

    Remove the red orb(casters get a disproportionately larger increase because there are very few multiplicative increases in the melee soul trees, so this thing is just dumb anyway)
    Move controlled opportunity up the dominator tree so you can't have it and fulminate.
    Reduce GOS to 10 or 15%; it compounded with the new armor increase is just too much.
    Reduce fulminates damage by ~30%, but reduce it's cooldown by the same amount.
    Same treatment for cinder, reduce it's damage, reduce the ICD, and increase the procrate on it.

    What you now have is the same dps in pve, the same overall dps over a 45 second window in pvp but no longer "OMG WTF MASSIVE BURST ONE SHOT!!!11one" drama.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Selo View Post
    there is no stunlocking, an assassin gets 1 incombat stun, which you also get DR against, which makes you immune to any further stun, also most souls have "makes cc work 1 second shorter against you" and most players have pvp soul as ofspec, so break free is there, although on 2 min cd.

    also rogues cant cc pyros
    No. I have been stunned twice. For sure. I am not talking about disorient. I am talking about stun. Was stunned on opening. Stun wore off. I landed a couple of hits..then I was stunned again for another 2-3 seconds.

    When I said stunlocking I mean prolonged period under stun effect.
    Quote Originally Posted by Detill5869 View Post
    5000 damage reminds me why I started a mage. can't wait to hit 50 and kill lots of players in pvp with my 5000 damage attacks.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delolith View Post
    No. I have been stunned twice. For sure. I am not talking about disorient. I am talking about stun. Was stunned on opening. Stun wore off. I landed a couple of hits..then I was stunned again for another 2-3 seconds.

    When I said stunlocking I mean prolonged period under stun effect.
    so you didnt get any damage.
    if assassin opens with stun(4 sec stun) he deals 2k less damage(over 16 sec) which means he kinda ruined his fight.
    after it he can stun again for 4 sec but this time it will be 2 sec.

    if you are a rogue for example you can do the followingrogue vs rogue)
    he stunned you -> break free
    stunned again-> immune(-2 sec on stuns always)

    so you kinda never got CC by him.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nodisplay View Post
    so you didnt get any damage.
    if assassin opens with stun(4 sec stun) he deals 2k less damage(over 16 sec) which means he kinda ruined his fight.
    after it he can stun again for 4 sec but this time it will be 2 sec.

    if you are a rogue for example you can do the followingrogue vs rogue)
    he stunned you -> break free
    stunned again-> immune(-2 sec on stuns always)

    so you kinda never got CC by him.
    the problem is that magic -2sec on stun is only on the rogue pvp soul.

    also in my knowledge they usually open with stun->slip away->jagged->dps skills->stun->dps->silence or something that once again greys out my bar (cleric)

    edit: not to say that its op or nerf or anything. but giving higher DPS to assasin is laughable, they have CC and good survivability and good dps (not as high as pure dps specs though).

    those which imo need some dps boost from the rogue calling are MM for sure, followed by a SLIGHT increase in nb.
    Last edited by shroudb; 04-07-2011 at 03:27 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shroudb View Post
    the problem is that magic -2sec on stun is only on the rogue pvp soul.

    also in my knowledge they usually open with stun->slip away->jagged->dps skills->stun->dps->silence or something that once again greys out my bar (cleric)

    edit: not to say that its op or nerf or anything. but giving higher DPS to assasin is laughable, they have CC and good survivability and good dps (not as high as pure dps specs though).

    those which imo need some dps boost from the rogue calling are MM for sure, followed by a SLIGHT increase in nb.
    This. That is exactly the rotation he followed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nodisplay View Post
    so you didnt get any damage.
    if assassin opens with stun(4 sec stun) he deals 2k less damage(over 16 sec) which means he kinda ruined his fight.
    after it he can stun again for 4 sec but this time it will be 2 sec.

    if you are a rogue for example you can do the followingrogue vs rogue)
    he stunned you -> break free
    stunned again-> immune(-2 sec on stuns always)

    so you kinda never got CC by him.
    He didn't do any damage?

    Sorry but I have 6k self buffed hps with 55% physical mitigation + 310 Valor, and the time I started to actually doing considerable damage to him was when I was at 3.5k hps. The only reason imo that I won that fight was due to me using a few abilities on CDs. And the fight ended with me having 900 hps.

    Wanna tell me what would have happened if anyone else more "squishy" was on the opposite side? And you want more DPS on your stunning builds? No thanks.
    Last edited by Delolith; 04-07-2011 at 03:39 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Detill5869 View Post
    5000 damage reminds me why I started a mage. can't wait to hit 50 and kill lots of players in pvp with my 5000 damage attacks.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delolith View Post
    This. That is exactly the rotation he followed.



    He didn't do any damage?

    Sorry but I have 6k self buffed hps with 55% physical mitigation + 310 Valor, and the time I started to actually doing considerable damage to him was when I was at 3.5k hps. The only reason imo that I won that fight was due to me using a few abilities on CDs. And the fight ended with me having 900 hps.

    Wanna tell me what would have happened if anyone else more "squishy" was on the opposite side? And you want more DPS on your stunning builds? No thanks.
    if he wasted slip away he is a dead rogue.
    also as you can see you won... rogues can kill someone each 2 minutes using all of their CDs and then they go to sleep.

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