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Thread: Pre-Defined Roles Don't Apply in RIFT

  1. #1
    Rift Disciple Grinde's Avatar
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    Default Pre-Defined Roles Don't Apply in RIFT

    Ok, so, we're told over and over again that the pre defined "traditional" roles don't apply in RIFT. That's a good thing. But when they did this and still kept "traditional" classes, I think it kind of screwed the pooch a bit.

    Look at it like this:

    Warriors: DPS/Tank
    Rogues: DPS/Tank
    Mage: DPS/Heal
    Cleric: DPS/Heal/Tank

    If you ask me, only one of those classes fits the complete profile of traditional roles not applying in this game. I think Trion did an excellent job with the clerics.

    Problem is, everyone else should be able to do everything as well.

    Would a better system have been using classes such as: Melee, Ranged, Healer, Hybrid, and Tank? Or perhaps even making all souls usable by everyone?

  2. #2
    Telaran Yunesca's Avatar
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    Thing about your comparative list there is thay you have missed out Support, which in Rift is a role of its own.

    And no, mage tank just doesn't fit the profile, nor would it work in practice. Rogues can heal, albeit not as a main healer, but the fact they provide hefty debuff/buffs and cover healing is a role of its own.

    Whats the point of this topic anyway? Are you saying there "should" be a mage tank? Or a pure rogue healer?

  3. #3
    Rift Disciple Grinde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yunesca View Post
    Thing about your comparative list there is thay you have missed out Support, which in Rift is a role of its own.

    And no, mage tank just doesn't fit the profile, nor would it work in practice. Rogues can heal, albeit not as a main healer, but the fact they provide hefty debuff/buffs and cover healing is a role of its own.

    Whats the point of this topic anyway? Are you saying there "should" be a mage tank? Or a pure rogue healer?
    I like traditional roles, but I understand what RIFT was doing and really appreciate the idea to get away from cookie cutter roles.

    The topic is for discussion. Nothing more, nothing less.

    And yes, I think if the pre defined roles shouldn't apply then there should be mage tanks and rogue healers.

    A mage could tank with a teleportation spell that moves them around on contact, making the mob chase them down to lessen the amount of hits taken and therefore increase survivability of the mage.

    And I didn't forget support, that tends to be along the lines of Hybrid.

  4. #4
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grinde View Post
    I like traditional roles, but I understand what RIFT was doing and really appreciate the idea to get away from cookie cutter roles.

    The topic is for discussion. Nothing more, nothing less.

    And yes, I think if the pre defined roles shouldn't apply then there should be mage tanks and rogue healers.

    A mage could tank with a teleportation spell that moves them around on contact, making the mob chase them down to lessen the amount of hits taken and therefore increase survivability of the mage.

    And I didn't forget support, that tends to be along the lines of Hybrid.
    Support doesn't fit into the Holy Trinity of MMO Gaming, so that's why you see it as a hybrid. It's not, though. A Hybrid is someone who can fill multiple roles to a certain extent. An example of a Hybrid would be a Necromancer off-healing with their self-damage heals, or a Shaman off-tanking a few mobs with Justicar threat-boosts and their own self-healing.

    Support is different entirely. It's buffs, debuffs, crowd control, and ambient healing (which is NOT the same as Cleric or Chloromancer healing). Archons, Dominators, Bards, and theoretically Warlords bring much, much more of this support than say a Pyromancer, Assassin, or Riftblade.

    I think the developers really intend for raid comps to look something like: 2 Tanks, 2 Healers, 2 Support, 4 DPS. (I do not believe these are the actual numbers used for a raid, I am just using that comp as an example.)

    If you tried to use another DPS in place of one of those Support characters, your raid as a whole would take more damage and likely deal less damage. If you tried to use another Healer in place of one of those Support characters, your raid as a whole would likely deal much less damage and have a lot more overhealing.

    So in that sense, the callings are relatively balanced. Each calling has access to DPS souls, and two of three of the other roles (Healing, Tanking, Supporting). Warcraft completely nixed the idea of having Support classes, so it's hard for a lot of players to think of it as an actual Role and even harder for them to picture it as necessary.

    I think where they failed was with Warlord and Warrior in general, as well as Dominator (in PvE).

    Warlords should have been more Support focused than they currently are, providing Warriors with the ability to fill in for Archon/Bard, just as a Chloromancer can fill in for a Sentinel or something. Instead, they seem to function as a less optimal tank that brings a few extra buffs.

    Warrior in general are far too Tank heavy. Tanking is the least popular Role in any MMO as well as being the smallest portion of the average Raid, and the Tank specs themselves feel far too redundant or niche specific. Void Knight seems only useful for specific niches (PvP, caster bosses), and Warlord feels like it's relegated exclusively to off spec points. If Warlord had been made full Support like Archon/Bard, I think it would have felt a little more balanced. But as is, Warriors are just far less versatile than any other Calling, both as far as Roles they can fill and as far as different playstyles. All they can do is Tank or Melee DPS. Compare that to Cleric (Tank, Heal, Melee DPS, Ranged DPS), Rogue (Tank, Support, Melee DPS, Ranged DPS), and Mage (Heal, Support, Ranged DPS).

    Dominators (in PvE) just fall flat because CC hasn't been nearly as useful as it could have been, and you can usually achieve the necessary levels of CC in any other soul or calling without sacrificing as much DPS. I think they should have had a stronger emphasis on Debuffs, with Archon focusing more on Buffs, to make them a different flavor of Support.

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