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Thread: Unbalanced on Purpose?

  1. #1
    Telaran
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    Default Unbalanced on Purpose?

    Just a question I want to throw between the usual cries of "nerf" and "op". The balance changes, particularly apparent with the patch 1.1, seem to be so far out the window that I must honestly doubt they've been done with balancing in mind.

    It appears that the plan is to have mages being OP for a while, and after enough cries for nerfs, they will get the bat and some other calling/archetype gets some unexplainable changes making them FOTM. Allthewhile the mages will get the "BIG BAT" instead of finetuning their abilities.

    I would think if you plan to seriously balance out everything, you would nerf in small steps, analyze the outcoming, what affects what, and then decide if nerfing another step, or if its mission accomplished for that skill. What we are seeing here, and in alot of other MMORPGs, is nerfing with the BIG BAT. It doesn't make sense and its not balancing. I refuse to believe that the DEVs are so blind to ignore so many factors, nerving several skills that go hand-in-hand and basically creating a much bigger nerf than the total of their small changes.

    I may be wrong and they just nerf in a different manner, from extremely OP to extremely UP, to moderately OP, to moderately UP and somehow hope to reach the balance like that. That does however make no sense at all for me, as balancing (IMHO) is something that must be done with alot of finesse and regard to many small details.

    Am I the only one who's not getting this? Is this balance, or just some sort of FOTM-game?

  2. #2
    Prophet of Telara Banthaz's Avatar
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    Dev: "Wow, it's really great to be working with you"

    G: "Yeah, totally, my last project didn't pan out so well. I heard it's doing better now after I've left. Kind of strange."

    Dev: "Yeah well I'm sure you had nothing to do with that. Anyway I'm sure you want to start work on the balancing issues."

    G: "The what?"

    Dev: "Well...you know, the class balance"

    G: "This...bah-lunce is a new concept to me. You can explain it to me later."

    Dev: "But...I thought you..."

    G: "Look, just show me your versions of BW and Chosen and let's get to buffing those babies."

    Dev: :|

  3. #3
    Telaran
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    Well I noticed those kind of nerfs well before WAR. So it can't be just one person not knowing how to balance.

  4. #4
    Plane Walker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crassius View Post
    Just a question I want to throw between the usual cries of "nerf" and "op". The balance changes, particularly apparent with the patch 1.1, seem to be so far out the window that I must honestly doubt they've been done with balancing in mind.

    It appears that the plan is to have mages being OP for a while, and after enough cries for nerfs, they will get the bat and some other calling/archetype gets some unexplainable changes making them FOTM. Allthewhile the mages will get the "BIG BAT" instead of finetuning their abilities.

    I would think if you plan to seriously balance out everything, you would nerf in small steps, analyze the outcoming, what affects what, and then decide if nerfing another step, or if its mission accomplished for that skill. What we are seeing here, and in alot of other MMORPGs, is nerfing with the BIG BAT. It doesn't make sense and its not balancing. I refuse to believe that the DEVs are so blind to ignore so many factors, nerving several skills that go hand-in-hand and basically creating a much bigger nerf than the total of their small changes.

    I may be wrong and they just nerf in a different manner, from extremely OP to extremely UP, to moderately OP, to moderately UP and somehow hope to reach the balance like that. That does however make no sense at all for me, as balancing (IMHO) is something that must be done with alot of finesse and regard to many small details.

    Am I the only one who's not getting this? Is this balance, or just some sort of FOTM-game?
    You are as right as you can be ,Trion makes FOTMs so people take advantage and trion knows that they will re-sub do to winning,NOW if you are not a FOTM and your losing too much Trion knows that you will quit the game so they have to change the FOTM before every billing period. Yes this is what happens when greed is involved...
    Last edited by RedneckJedi; 04-05-2011 at 05:56 AM.

  5. #5
    Plane Touched Mahkra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crassius View Post
    Just a question I want to throw between the usual cries of "nerf" and "op". The balance changes, particularly apparent with the patch 1.1, seem to be so far out the window that I must honestly doubt they've been done with balancing in mind.

    It appears that the plan is to have mages being OP for a while, and after enough cries for nerfs, they will get the bat and some other calling/archetype gets some unexplainable changes making them FOTM. Allthewhile the mages will get the "BIG BAT" instead of finetuning their abilities.

    I would think if you plan to seriously balance out everything, you would nerf in small steps, analyze the outcoming, what affects what, and then decide if nerfing another step, or if its mission accomplished for that skill. What we are seeing here, and in alot of other MMORPGs, is nerfing with the BIG BAT. It doesn't make sense and its not balancing. I refuse to believe that the DEVs are so blind to ignore so many factors, nerving several skills that go hand-in-hand and basically creating a much bigger nerf than the total of their small changes.

    I may be wrong and they just nerf in a different manner, from extremely OP to extremely UP, to moderately OP, to moderately UP and somehow hope to reach the balance like that. That does however make no sense at all for me, as balancing (IMHO) is something that must be done with alot of finesse and regard to many small details.

    Am I the only one who's not getting this? Is this balance, or just some sort of FOTM-game?
    Mages had a few days of OP while people adjusted to their class changes. That has pretty much changed except for the people who just don't get it. I am getting killed a lot more by new tactics that I never had to deal with before. Not to mention all the immunities other classes have.....

    Sounds fairly balanced doesn't it?

  6. #6
    RIFT Guide Writer Hokonoso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by banthaz View Post
    dev: "wow, it's really great to be working with you"

    g: "yeah, totally, my last project didn't pan out so well. I heard it's doing better now after i've left. Kind of strange."

    dev: "yeah well i'm sure you had nothing to do with that. Anyway i'm sure you want to start work on the balancing issues."

    g: "the what?"

    dev: "well...you know, the class balance"

    g: "this...bah-lunce is a new concept to me. You can explain it to me later."

    dev: "but...i thought you..."

    g: "look, just show me your versions of bw and chosen and let's get to buffing those babies."

    dev: :|
    qft!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Useful Rogue guides since I don't want to answer 50 billion questions anymore:
    Marksman, Ranger, Nightblade, Blink'Blade, Asstalker, Assdancer, and finally The Hoko Spec™
    Hoko, teaching noobs the way of rogue pve until 12/20/11.

  7. #7
    Soulwalker meinotchu's Avatar
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    I think what seemingly threw balance out of whack is the combination of bug fixes (paragon/sabo armor pen bugs) combined with nerfs.

    Can't remember the math, nor the post with it but the resulting combined loss was really high, somewhere in the 30% neighborhood for sabos which is A LOT of dps to lose in a single day.

    Methinks that fixing bugs like these, then letting the playerbase play with fixed mechanics for a while would have made the nerf pill easier to swallow at the very least, if not negated the need for the nerfs in the first place.

    Seen it in games before, and learned about it in class (BA in Game and Simulation Production): FIX BUGS - test - tweak gameplay - test - repeat. Trion, and many other companies seem to completely ignore the first test phase. Which in turn wastes more time in reverting changes (which also makes you look bad, btw) than the first test phase would have taken in the first place.

    Trion, remember THIS IS YOUR FIRST GAME AS A COMPANY, this will literally make or break you as a company. This is where you make a name for yourselves as either an awesome company with great games, or one to avoid at all costs...see Top Ware Interactive for this. Two Worlds was sooooo horribly broken on both 360 and PC I refuse to buy another game from them...ever.
    Does history guide you, or do you set out to change it?

    Stupidity and ignorance are close cousins until you realize how each is solved: Ignorance requires a book; Stupidity requires a shotgun and a shovel...so which solution have you shown yourself to require?

  8. #8
    Prophet of Telara Banthaz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by meinotchu View Post
    Trion, remember THIS IS YOUR FIRST GAME AS A COMPANY, this will literally make or break you as a company. This is where you make a name for yourselves as either an awesome company with great games, or one to avoid at all costs...see Top Ware Interactive for this. Two Worlds was sooooo horribly broken on both 360 and PC I refuse to buy another game from them...ever.

    2nd Game. WAR was their 1st.

  9. #9
    Soulwalker meinotchu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Banthaz View Post
    2nd Game. WAR was their 1st.
    WAR was developed by Mythic Entertainment, who was bought out by EA just prior to (prematurely*) launching WAR. Mythic is still in business as far as I know.

    http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
    https://jobs.ea.com/locations/usa/fairfax/

    Granted there do seem to be quite a few ex-WAR devs at Trion...which may explain a few things.

    Though looking through their published list I see this is their third(?**) game.

    * Many think the premature launch was EA's doing.
    **Not sure if the joint Trion/Syfy thing is anywhere near completion, but from what I've found it doesn't look like it.
    Does history guide you, or do you set out to change it?

    Stupidity and ignorance are close cousins until you realize how each is solved: Ignorance requires a book; Stupidity requires a shotgun and a shovel...so which solution have you shown yourself to require?

  10. #10
    Soulwalker
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    We cannot forget that the game have been out for 1 month. Don't even expect something that can be called Balanced for maybe 3-5 months, maybe more. The "OP" class will always be there, but which class it is will somewhat change.

  11. #11
    Prophet of Telara Banthaz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by meinotchu View Post
    WAR was developed by Mythic Entertainment, who was bought out by EA just prior to (prematurely*) launching WAR. Mythic is still in business as far as I know.

    http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
    https://jobs.ea.com/locations/usa/fairfax/

    Granted there do seem to be quite a few ex-WAR devs at Trion...which may explain a few things.

    Though looking through their published list I see this is their third(?**) game.

    * Many think the premature launch was EA's doing.
    **Not sure if the joint Trion/Syfy thing is anywhere near completion, but from what I've found it doesn't look like it.
    Thought the sarcasm was oozing out of my post. I meant it jokingly as a stab at taking so many former mythic devs from WAR onto the Trion dev team.

  12. #12
    Soulwalker meinotchu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Banthaz View Post
    Thought the sarcasm was oozing out of my post. I meant it jokingly as a stab at taking so many former mythic devs from WAR onto the Trion dev team.
    Lulz, np. Sarcasm filters are offline for about another 1-2 hours for updates
    Does history guide you, or do you set out to change it?

    Stupidity and ignorance are close cousins until you realize how each is solved: Ignorance requires a book; Stupidity requires a shotgun and a shovel...so which solution have you shown yourself to require?

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