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Thread: Why are most of the souls unplayable

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    Rift Disciple Nallly's Avatar
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    Default Why are most of the souls unplayable

    Why are 3 out of the 8 warrior souls(not counting PVP soul) now completly useless? VK has nothing since discharge does so lil damage it wont even kill a deer, RB is not useless cause it's main attck was taken from it and Reaver suppose to be the aoe dot class but it has 2 dots one on a 15 sec CD and one on a 1min cd and all the damage from them is reduce if you use plauge bringer and the healing from them is basicly nothing noticable. No other soul in the warrior tree was that powerful besides champ so you just reduce the damage and stun time of titans stike and just nerf all the other warrior souls calling it a fix? So you nerf warriors and found absolutly nothing wrong but mages but gave them god mode bypass clerics and you cant even nerf rogue anymore unless you want to make it unplayable and call this a fix? where is the uniqueness that you wanted to show us when the half of the souls in 2 of the main dps classes are nerfed and have thier damage so completely and underly lowered beyond standards that it dosent make sense. Just cause some ppl on a pve sever complained about how they cant play thier class correctly.
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    Soulwalker
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    0/10, you're too obvious about trolling
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    Rift Disciple Nallly's Avatar
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    i was?dang srry i wasnt trolling, it's the truth look at all the classes souls and look at all the ppl that play them....i havent seen a VK since beta,a sabo since the nerf, reaver is only for tanking now, MM/ranger are crap damage, pyros have god mode...am i the only person that sees this?...
    Freeholme
    Nally: 34champ/26beastmaster/6 riftblade 29riftblade/24 champion/ 13paragon
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    Gsb 5/5 Ros 5/5 GP 3/4 DH 3/4 HK 1/11
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    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nallly View Post
    i was?dang srry i wasnt trolling, it's the truth look at all the classes souls and look at all the ppl that play them....i havent seen a VK since beta,a sabo since the nerf, reaver is only for tanking now, MM/ranger are crap damage, pyros have god mode...am i the only person that sees this?...
    I'll call this out for the dense of mind. The Reaver is supposed to be a tanking soul, not an offensive soul. That was the point of the nerfs, whether you think they achieved their objective or not, was to keep the Reaver defensive. Funny that, huh?

    VKs have always been PvP. Are you looking PvE for them? Cause yeah, they've been rare there for ages.

    Sabos are (or were) all about set-up and burst. I still see some, but like the VK, the really do their best in PvP. In PvE you are (and have) been better off with some of the other Rogue callings, unless Sab playstyle just hit your buttons.

    MM/Rangers - I'll give you MMs. The damage nerf was too much. In time, I will hedge it will be adjusted upwards. That's how MMOs go. Up and down. If you haven't seen that happen before, welcome to the MMO waveform. My Ranger seems to do just fine, overall, but you need to spec fairly deep into Ranger to start to get the damage up. Could use some tweaks, but overall I felt like it performs better than MM did point-for-point.

    Pyros will be adjusted. Not a guess, a certainty. Just as Bright Wizards were in WAR. Hopefully Trion won't take the year+ Mythic took to get to that. In the meantime, in PvP where most of the crying is about Pyros, the imbalance suffered by Destro in WAR with BWs has no equivelant in Rift. Since your side can make their own Pyros. And because PvP isnt' one on one dueling, perhaps you can use something like group tactics to counter the dastardly Pyros until a fix is made. Get a guild, get out of the PUGs, start working with pre-mades.

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    Rift Disciple Nanoth's Avatar
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    But the thing I only have problems with on the Tanking side of things is that its 5/8 Classes are for Tanking in the Warrior Souls, and prob only 1 maybe 1.5 for PvP...

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    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nanoth View Post
    But the thing I only have problems with on the Tanking side of things is that its 5/8 Classes are for Tanking in the Warrior Souls, and prob only 1 maybe 1.5 for PvP...
    TBH, not all souls are made for PvP. Plus there are only tanking souls: Reaver, Paladin, Void Knight. Warlord is supposed to be a tank soul, but honestly, its not what it needs to be in general. The other 4 are offensive (Paragon, RB, Champ, BM). So your count is off.

    Warriors have some very good options for PvP, even with the 1.1 'nerfs': Paragon, Riftblade and Champion. Voidknights too (arguably better in PvP than PvE). That's half the souls which work well in PvP overall. Considering that PvP is mostly offensive, that seems to fit.

    IMO, I'd have made the Paladin a healing soul to give Warriors more flexibility in either PvE or PvP.

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    Rift Disciple Nanoth's Avatar
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    Now list the PvE and PvP souls for each other class...

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    Shadowlander
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmredux View Post
    IMO, I'd have made the Paladin a healing soul to give Warriors more flexibility in either PvE or PvP.
    Yea. Something more like WoW's Disc Priest woulda been awesome. (less healing based, more migation based)

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    Rift Disciple Nallly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmredux View Post
    I'll call this out for the dense of mind. The Reaver is supposed to be a tanking soul, not an offensive soul. That was the point of the nerfs, whether you think they achieved their objective or not, was to keep the Reaver defensive. Funny that, huh?

    VKs have always been PvP. Are you looking PvE for them? Cause yeah, they've been rare there for ages.

    .
    tell me how is the reaver defensive then? it can only heal off 2 dots 1 has a 15 sec CD and the other is a 31 point skill on a 1min CD so they nerf the healing soul feast does and that makes it defensive?

    i really dont mean to be rude but last time i check theres only 1 pvp soul for warriors and thats vidicator. Any other soul can be used in pvp and pve yet VK is not able to. Tell me the last time you sat there and drains a mobs mana or a bosses mana, never cause it dosent happen yes VK is a tanking soul that is mostly used against bosses.mobs that use mana but tell me the last time you saw a VK sit there and tank while draining mana from the boss. I play on a pvp sever and warfront quite often i can tell you i have not seen a VK since beta
    Freeholme
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    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nallly View Post
    tell me how is the reaver defensive then? it can only heal off 2 dots 1 has a 15 sec CD and the other is a 31 point skill on a 1min CD so they nerf the healing soul feast does and that makes it defensive?

    i really dont mean to be rude but last time i check theres only 1 pvp soul for warriors and thats vidicator. Any other soul can be used in pvp and pve yet VK is not able to. Tell me the last time you sat there and drains a mobs mana or a bosses mana, never cause it dosent happen yes VK is a tanking soul that is mostly used against bosses.mobs that use mana but tell me the last time you saw a VK sit there and tank while draining mana from the boss. I play on a pvp sever and warfront quite often i can tell you i have not seen a VK since beta
    The Reaver is a tanking soul. Now, if its not performing after the nerfs, then it needs attention, I'll grant you that. But don't expect to see the big damage numbers it had before, that wasn't the intention. Personally, I'd have made the Paragon the Bladedancer avoidance/parry style tank of the Warriors and made Reaver an offensive soul, but no one asked me at all.

    You weren't rude tbh. VKs were having fun until recently with mana draining the mages/clerics, but I agree that their use in PVE is minimal, they are a bit over-specialized.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nallly View Post
    tell me how is the reaver defensive then? it can only heal off 2 dots 1 has a 15 sec CD and the other is a 31 point skill on a 1min CD so they nerf the healing soul feast does and that makes it defensive?

    i really dont mean to be rude but last time i check theres only 1 pvp soul for warriors and thats vidicator. Any other soul can be used in pvp and pve yet VK is not able to. Tell me the last time you sat there and drains a mobs mana or a bosses mana, never cause it dosent happen yes VK is a tanking soul that is mostly used against bosses.mobs that use mana but tell me the last time you saw a VK sit there and tank while draining mana from the boss. I play on a pvp sever and warfront quite often i can tell you i have not seen a VK since beta
    Just because something doesn't have self heals (or awesome self heals) doesn't make it "not defensive". There are things like mitigation you know. I'll educate you on the Reaver.

    Ignoring self healing, what makes a reaver defensive?

    -5% aoe hit debuff
    +hp for speccing in soul
    self armor buff
    -5% power debuff (aoe)
    35% less damage taken ability
    -20% damage taken when under 30% hp
    -5% damage taken
    -15% str debuff (aoe)
    -9% spell damage taken
    -10% damage taken (procs off aoes)

    Ignoring the self healing (which a reaver can do). We can see here that a Reaver gets pretty nice mitigation tools, on a group of mobs/players they can:

    Debuff hit by 5%
    debuff str by 15%
    debuff spell/attack power by 5%

    and on top of that, they have raw mitigation

    15% less physical damage taken
    24% less magical damage taken
    35% less physical damage taken under 30% hp
    44% less magical damage taken under 30% hp

    Now, the Reaver doesn't exist in a vacuum either, and you can get other tools from other tank paths as well to further boost your mitigation. For example, speccing 20 points in paladin nets you (ignoring all the stuff like +block and armor), an additional 20% less physical damage taken and 29% spell damage taken, this would put you at:

    35% less physical damage taken
    51% less magical damage taken
    55% less physical damage taken under 30% hp
    71% less magical damage taken under 30% hp

    and of course, popping the 44 point ability adds 35% to any value listed above. Meaning that if you pop that at low life, you can effectively have -90% physical damage taken and -106% less magical damage taken for the duration of that ability.

    Yes a Reavers self healing was nerfed, but thats because it was pretty ridiculous. On my Reaver/Paladin, I used to solo entire rifts with ease. I could take on multiple elite mobs and win. Heck, one time I got jumped by a level 50 champion/paragon (pre-nerf) while I had just killed him and was in his camp fighting 10 guards. He came back, I killed him 3x more times while i also killed all the guards. I treated him like just another one of the mobs. I didn't even have to think. It was stupid OP.
    Last edited by Foofmonger; 04-04-2011 at 09:17 PM.

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    Rift Disciple Nanoth's Avatar
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    Heres something that mainly irritates me...

    G Reaver is Questing in a PvP server. Now he is going Reaver cause its a better PvE (His Opinion), he minds his own buisness and doesn't hunt down Defiants because he knows, He is a tank, therefore he can't fight in PvP.

    NOW D Rogue is also questing in the same area as the G Reaver, he is in his constant stealth because he speced as such, he sees G Reaver who naturally doesn't know he is there and sneaks up on G Reaver and then thus attacks, G Reaver turns around and... What??? He can't fight back, its a waste of time because he does little to no damage, his survivability seems to be in the dumps when it comes to PvP and D Rogue caught him mid battle with a mob. So he is spos to lay down his weapons and commit Suppeku???

    Moving on, we have G Reaver back on his feet questing, he moved on to another day, he doing his thing when suddenly out of no where he gets blasted for over half his health from a Fireball, looking around he finally sees the Pyro before getting blasted again for the rest of his health... What was G Reaver spos to do???

    Another day, G Reaver has moved to play his S&S DPS which is Pali/Champ/Para, so he is questin, sees a Cleric, now he thinks to himself, Hey I am play a DPS character, this guy mainly does damage and doesn't do a lot on the defense side, the Cleric is down to Half their health and have 2 mobs still on them, so lets try this out...
    G Reaver is then killed from the Cleric who is not only healing but damaging him at the same time, all his burst damage counts for zip and dies...

    G Reaver finally says to himself, fine I will play that so called OP class, looks it up, crafts himself a nasty weapon with a great augment. Practices for a bit on mobs then goes out into the open world looking to bring the hurt back to the Defiants... Rinse and repeat of the last 3 occasions...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nanoth View Post
    Heres something that mainly irritates me...

    G Reaver is Questing in a PvP server. Now he is going Reaver cause its a better PvE (His Opinion), he minds his own buisness and doesn't hunt down Defiants because he knows, He is a tank, therefore he can't fight in PvP.

    NOW D Rogue is also questing in the same area as the G Reaver, he is in his constant stealth because he speced as such, he sees G Reaver who naturally doesn't know he is there and sneaks up on G Reaver and then thus attacks, G Reaver turns around and... What??? He can't fight back, its a waste of time because he does little to no damage, his survivability seems to be in the dumps when it comes to PvP and D Rogue caught him mid battle with a mob. So he is spos to lay down his weapons and commit Suppeku???

    Moving on, we have G Reaver back on his feet questing, he moved on to another day, he doing his thing when suddenly out of no where he gets blasted for over half his health from a Fireball, looking around he finally sees the Pyro before getting blasted again for the rest of his health... What was G Reaver spos to do???

    Another day, G Reaver has moved to play his S&S DPS which is Pali/Champ/Para, so he is questin, sees a Cleric, now he thinks to himself, Hey I am play a DPS character, this guy mainly does damage and doesn't do a lot on the defense side, the Cleric is down to Half their health and have 2 mobs still on them, so lets try this out...
    G Reaver is then killed from the Cleric who is not only healing but damaging him at the same time, all his burst damage counts for zip and dies...

    G Reaver finally says to himself, fine I will play that so called OP class, looks it up, crafts himself a nasty weapon with a great augment. Practices for a bit on mobs then goes out into the open world looking to bring the hurt back to the Defiants... Rinse and repeat of the last 3 occasions...
    It isn't Reavers fault you are being defeated, it is your own.

    I've been in similar situations like those with my 50 Reaver, and I can win. Do I always win? No, I don't expect to at my gear/spec level, but thats not the point.

    Its doable to beat those classes. The rogue shouldnt have been hard.

    Also, a Paladin spec is not DPS.

  14. #14
    Ascendant Talamare's Avatar
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    both Reaver and Void Knights are extremely powerful Tanking souls, and are very commonly used even if they do not get the spotlight that Paladin does

    both Reaver and Void Knight is better for Tanking than Paladin

    both provide more Physical and Magical mitigation than Paladin



    The only Tank class thats really is in trouble is Warlord
    It's not a damage meters fault you can't hit a certain dps and others similar to you can, it's the fault of your bad gear, bad spec, or bad rotation. So stop getting mad at the meters and invest some time into not being bad.

    DPS Mathcraft - How damage works
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    Shadowlander Leinna's Avatar
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    My main is a void knight / riftblade / paladin 'tank' with 8 points in pally (extra block, shield buff, and extra threat) and the rest spread between void knight and riftblade fairly equally.
    I can teleport to enemies, teleport them to me, recharge these abilities with planar blade, use spark or flame spear on ranged enemies as I close to them, AoE tank with thunder strike / blast and ... the AoE VK ability (can't remember the name now), use flame strike/burst on single targets, or use the mana drain abilities of the VK if I'm fighting a mage.

    I miss my extra damage discharge, and it is a pain that I can't rapidfire flamespears into ranged enemies, but overall I don't feel nerfed very much at all.

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