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Thread: Some more ammunition for those crying for Pyro nerf :P

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    Default Some more ammunition for those crying for Pyro nerf :P

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gheUmdjEn_M

    Read video description before replying. Pyros are just as stupid without the red powerup, stuff still dies in 1-3 spells, a lot of the damage done with it here was just overkill.

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    Ascendant Sharuko's Avatar
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    Most of my Pyro friends have admitted they are god mode and guess what, most of them don't want god mode. Good players want a balanced class and not a overpowered class like how Pyros are now.
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    Ascendant Indasoth's Avatar
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    The same guy that made BW's OP in Warhammer is now the Producer for Rift. Guess what? It's not going to change anytime soon. He's got a thing for mages in the games he's in charge of apparently.

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    Please, letís take a step back and think logically about what the actual problems with Pyro are before we make changes that do nothing to weaken the great ones and make the weak ones laughable. The problem with Pyro isnít GoS. Mages in previous mmoís were more about kiting than in this game (I do not like this as I have always loved kiting).

    I can kite people in this game but you would be hard pressed to successfully argue that this game is set up to make kiting as viable as in most recent mmoís. I can get in a long discussion with why this is the case but just think about all the aoe/range/long duration stuns the gap closers the dmg immunity abilities etc. and the ability to kill clothies during a complete stunlock (before you say l2p and all that Iím not saying you canít kite as I have with multiple mage souls, my point is that kiting is not nearly as viable and I play melee as well(I play too much)).

    Now as far as mage soul specs go, the people that do 51 point pyro are not the issue. I kill them easy and if you canít kill them 1 on 1 as a rogue you need more practice/gear/something(assuming they donít have wings, which are definitely too powerful on a pyro). The real problems with pyro imo are that dmg scales way too well with gear and the TOTAL amount of dmg mitigation that a pro (usually non 51 point but depending on the other team) pyro can achieve. These are the reasons you see some pyros that can solo 3-4 people and can take 10-20 seconds of attacks before their hp drops. It is easy for a pyro to either take no dmg for an extended period and/or heal (not as good of a spec though unless under geared) it away if they are high enough in pvp ranks and have good gear. With the damage scaling they can even destroy people while doing this.

    Think about this as well. Around and below level 44, pyros really arenít something that special and you have also likely seen some 50 pyros that were pretty crappy even with their GoS. you may not have noticed these crappy pyros but I see them far more often than I see the good ones and the crappy ones are easy kills if you donít suck yourself.

    I hate writing (math nerd) so I donít want to go into it much further, however please think about this because the wrong nerfs could make warfront pvp even worse. GoS is not a problem and it allows for some interesting team battle tactics. Unless Trion changes a lot of things to make kiting more viable for other souls then nerfing the wrong parts of pyro will help cause battles to be strictly a numbers game.

    Again, I believe pyros need 2 big nerfs and a nerf to wings. However, they are not GoS. They are DD scaling with gear and the TOTAL dmg mitigation possible in the right specs and with the right gear/rank (look yourself if you want to see why as I donít want more pyros learning this). These nerfs will allow fights with tactics while taking away the ability of some pyros to destroy groups.

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    Ascendant Xvvt's Avatar
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    Oh hell, veev is playing rift!

    Can you give a brief opinion on the games pvp outsided of the current pyros?

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    What a suprise, another 'pyro is op' video where the pyro has the red orb buff - so all the numbers you see, halve them, and that is the pyros dmg - the other half is from the red orb. Anyone using red orb dmg numbers/dps to justify calling for pyro nerfs is not the brightest, hopefully the devs are smart enough to just get rid of the red orb buff and half the qq'ing about pyros will be gone. Until then, QQ more, if your going to post pyro videos/ss's , use non red orb dmg.
    Last edited by Hermispew; 04-04-2011 at 06:39 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xvvt View Post
    Oh hell, veev is playing rift!

    Can you give a brief opinion on the games pvp outsided of the current pyros?
    Balance is a joke and warfronts are boring as hell. Add decent RvR with real objectives (server wide buffs for winning, personal buffs for guilds controlling objects, loot that both sides fight over, etc.) and it'd be fun as hell. At the moment I only really play for PvE, played PvP for like 2 hours just to record this video and have no desire to continue grinding warfronts, even with a super-OP class.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Veev View Post
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gheUmdjEn_M

    Read video description before replying. Pyros are just as stupid without the red powerup, stuff still dies in 1-3 spells, a lot of the damage done with it here was just overkill.
    as I predicted long ago Pyros were not a rubbish class. Funny that as little as 3 weeks ago almost every player reguarded pyros as a joke class that had no use in pvp!

    btw the red power up DOUBLES the damage you do so it has a big impact especially in the codex as you can use one up then straight away get a second keeping you at double damage for at least 2 mins.

    I dont think pyros can kill you without the red powerup in 1 spell; even fulminate I dont think does that.

    I'd say simply remove the red powerup (halving pyros dps in that video) and see how things are after that. half your dps is a pretty big difference.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hermispew View Post
    What a suprise, another 'pyro is op' video where the pyro has the red orb buff - so all the numbers you see, halve them, and that is the pyros dmg - the other half is from the red orb. Anyone using red orb dmg numbers/dps to justify calling for pyro nerfs is not the brightest, hopefully the devs are smart enough to just get rid of the red orb buff and half the qq'ing about pyros will be gone. Until then, QQ more, if your going to post pyro videos/ss's , use non red orb dmg.
    You should open your eyes when other mages are saying this class needs fixed ASAP. But if you want to do the math, without the red orb buff:

    Flame Bolt - Hit 738, Crit 1107
    Fireball - Hit 950, Crit 1428 (plus DoT effect)
    Inferno - Hit 1242, Crit 1863
    Fulminate - Hit 2617, Crit 3930

    Considering it's very easy for Fireball/Inferno/Fulminate to all line up to hit within 1 second of each other, you can still pretty much "1 shot" (or 1 global) people with ease, with or without the buff.

    If my sole objective was getting Pyro nerfed I would have made a video without using it at all, but as I said in the description it's more for entertainment than anything else.

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    Rift Chaser Whistler85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hermispew View Post
    What a suprise, another 'pyro is op' video where the pyro has the red orb buff - so all the numbers you see, halve them, and that is the pyros dmg - the other half is from the red orb. Anyone using red orb dmg numbers/dps to justify calling for pyro nerfs is not the brightest, hopefully the devs are smart enough to just get rid of the red orb buff and half the qq'ing about pyros will be gone. Until then, QQ more, if your going to post pyro videos/ss's , use non red orb dmg.
    And yet another "He has the red orb" argument... Cause 5 and 6k hits cut in half arent STILL OP right? Going from 1 shot to 2 shot is perfectly balanced. Idiot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Veev View Post
    You should open your eyes when other mages are saying this class needs fixed ASAP. But if you want to do the math, without the red orb buff:

    Flame Bolt - Hit 738, Crit 1107
    Fireball - Hit 950, Crit 1428 (plus DoT effect)
    Inferno - Hit 1242, Crit 1863
    Fulminate - Hit 2617, Crit 3930

    Considering it's very easy for Fireball/Inferno/Fulminate to all line up to hit within 1 second of each other, you can still pretty much "1 shot" (or 1 global) people with ease, with or without the buff.

    If my sole objective was getting Pyro nerfed I would have made a video without using it at all, but as I said in the description it's more for entertainment than anything else.
    Did I say no changes should be made ? All I said was that people need to stop juding the class based on how they preform with the stupid red orb buff. Those numbers you posted are possible only with 51 pyro/15 all offensive archmage (and raid buffs), which would put you at the lowest hp in the game for anyone with equal gear. The warfront you were in was a faceroll, you couldnt have just stood at the front without pocket heals. So sure, post it for entertainment sake, but there is pretty much nothing to be gleamed about balance in that video.
    Last edited by Hermispew; 04-04-2011 at 07:17 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Veev View Post
    You should open your eyes when other mages are saying this class needs fixed ASAP. But if you want to do the math, without the red orb buff:

    Flame Bolt - Hit 738, Crit 1107
    Fireball - Hit 950, Crit 1428 (plus DoT effect)
    Inferno - Hit 1242, Crit 1863
    Fulminate - Hit 2617, Crit 3930

    Considering it's very easy for Fireball/Inferno/Fulminate to all line up to hit within 1 second of each other, you can still pretty much "1 shot" (or 1 global) people with ease, with or without the buff.

    If my sole objective was getting Pyro nerfed I would have made a video without using it at all, but as I said in the description it's more for entertainment than anything else.
    Some warriors and rogues still put out those very same numbers all while having more hp and armor. What's your point? Pyro damage should be that high since they have the lowest hp in the game and crumple like wet tissue paper when not abusing the games' additive math to achieve excellent mitigation. (which even with that mitigation pyros can and do get killed)
    Last edited by TheLeviathan; 04-04-2011 at 07:17 AM.
    Red ball + fulminate + really craptacular dom/pyro spec trying to hard cast transmog and pray your spell lands before some squirrel punching moron eats your controlled opp proc = +1 board warrior keeping mages from being realistically balanced in PVE or PVP. 1.0-1.2's best combo in the game. RIP FOTM Pyro rollers

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whistler85 View Post
    And yet another "He has the red orb" argument... Cause 5 and 6k hits cut in half arent STILL OP right? Going from 1 shot to 2 shot is perfectly balanced. Idiot.
    Why dont you quote the part where I said its perfectly balanced ? Or maybe instead you should just post more videos of you running around with red orb.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    Some warriors and rogues still put out those very same numbers all while having more hp and armor. What's your point? Pyro damage should be that high since they have the lowest hp in the game and crumple like wet tissue paper when not abusing the games' additive math to achieve excellent mitigation. (which even with that mitigation pyros can and do get killed)
    Your do of course realise that Mage Vs Warrior, the mage has more mitigation than the warrior as plate does not mitigate magic damage. And Mages have range. I'm tired of seeing people use your fail argument.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whistler85 View Post
    Your do of course realise that Mage Vs Warrior, the mage has more mitigation than the warrior as plate does not mitigate magic damage. And Mages have range. I'm tired of seeing people use your fail argument.

    You do of course realise that mages cant be 51 pyro/15 offensive archmage and still have points for defensive AM abilities right ? Sure, you can be more survivable, but with the dmg numbers posted in this thread, you cant be- it is a pure glass cannon spec

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