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Thread: POTW/Flamespear nerf - Why this was a deal breaker for me.

  1. #1
    Shadowlander
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    Default POTW/Flamespear nerf - Why this was a deal breaker for me.

    I've played MMO's since 1999 opening day of EQ 1. I have also played Shadowbane, DAOC, and WOW extensively on a top raiding level in each game. The one thing I really liked about playing warrior in this game, as opposed to EVERY OTHER GAME I have ever played was how in this game when mechanics made it so that you had to back out of melee range to dodge aoe's/etc. you still got to be involved in the fight. There was constantly something to do and it made it so that you could constantly push yourself in a fight. It wasn't just about getting back into melee range at the earliest possible moment, you were active the entire time you were running around. Now, the only spec that can stay active at range for more than a one to two GCD's is pure paragon, which frankly is terrible damage right now.

    The sad part about this is, neither of these abilities were broken in any way. Not only were they not outdamaging the other ranged specs of other classes BEFORE the buffs to mages but now the 1.0 level flamespear and POTW would look like a joke dmg wise compared to what mages are capable of and would still not out damage the rogue ranged specs.

    This is important. The things that needed to be nerfed that were fairly overpowered were rift surge and the crazy burst champions were capable off by blowing titanstrike and all their reactives at the same time. You nerfed those, why did you take away the one thing that set warrior dps apart in this game when it wasn't creating an imbalance in any situation in POTW and flamespear?

    Let me reiterate. I'm not mad one bit you are balancing PVE damage. I am a veteran of raiding and expected this. It wasn't why I rolled a warrior in the first place. The one thing that set melee dpsing apart in this game IS THE REASON. Now that that reason is gone I went ahead and took my credit card off my account because I lost the reason I was here. I was signed up for a 6 month sub, and I believe in a lot of what you folks have going on here, but lets face it. The raid content is easy. The game has a lot of bugs. There isn't a lot of level 50 content at this point. All of this was okay because you guys had a great concept going with the adaptibility of being able to perform multiple roles and be involved in content in different ways. From the end of beta through this current patch you have significantly stripped a lot of the uniqueness from the warrior class. I highly emplore you to at the very least go ahead and go back on the changes to POTW and flamespear's spammability. It is the ONLY thing that sets these classes apart and you NEED to understand thats what sold a lot of people on the warrior class.

  2. #2
    Ascendant exLupo's Avatar
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    It seems clear to me that Trion did not agree with the RDPS primary style some players were choosing for their Warriors so they removed it as even remotely viable.

    At the same time, they requested feedback on PvE events that players feel are too punishing to melee classes. This, also, seems to clearly say that while dev doesn't want warriors range dpsing, they are also wanting to make the close range danger much more manageable.

    Edit: Your post is clear and well spoken. Please don't quit because of something that is actively being worked on. The forum needs a higher quality of poster.
    Last edited by exLupo; 03-30-2011 at 02:15 PM.
    There is no better cause to fight than the simple need that blood be spilled. Do not fight because you receive reward or praise. Fight because that other bastard exists solely to die at the end of your blade.

  3. #3
    Shadowlander
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    Quote Originally Posted by exLupo View Post
    It seems clear to me that Trion did not agree with the RDPS primary style some players were choosing for their Warriors so they removed it as even remotely viable.
    That's the issue: some of us "fell in love" with this playstyle and they removed it. And I haven't seen one good reason so far why.

    I logged onto my level 50 warrior today, idled a bit with the talent window open but simply couldn't bring myself to spent any points or even leave the town. I actually started a mage, but was feeling just too sad losing my main character that I couldn't really stay online for long. *sniff*

    My account is canceled.

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    Champion Demonne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casares View Post
    That's the issue: some of us "fell in love" with this playstyle and they removed it. And I haven't seen one good reason so far why.

    I logged onto my level 50 warrior today, idled a bit with the talent window open but simply couldn't bring myself to spent any points or even leave the town. I actually started a mage, but was feeling just too sad losing my main character that I couldn't really stay online for long. *sniff*

    My account is canceled.
    All that because Flame Spear and POTW are now on a 4 sec CD?

  5. #5
    Plane Touched
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    Quote Originally Posted by Demonne View Post
    All that because Flame Spear and POTW are now on a 4 sec CD?
    There are two possibilities with Flame Spear and path of wind:

    1) Warriors were just spamming them incessantly, in which case these skills needed a small cooldown.
    2) Warriors were NOT just spamming them incessantly, in which case the small cool downs shouldn't matter to them.
    Last edited by Goryus; 03-30-2011 at 02:34 PM.

  6. #6
    Ascendant exLupo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casares View Post
    That's the issue: some of us "fell in love" with this playstyle and they removed it. And I haven't seen one good reason so far why.
    The reason was that you played the Warrior calling in a way that dev had not intended. Whether or not you are pleased by this is up to you but it is a good reason. Design intent, sometimes, is more holy than player desires.

    Hopefully you'll find another game that makes you as happy as your plate wearing, short range RDPS did here. Best of luck!
    There is no better cause to fight than the simple need that blood be spilled. Do not fight because you receive reward or praise. Fight because that other bastard exists solely to die at the end of your blade.

  7. #7
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by exLupo View Post
    It seems clear to me that Trion did not agree with the RDPS primary style some players were choosing for their Warriors so they removed it as even remotely viable.

    At the same time, they requested feedback on PvE events that players feel are too punishing to melee classes. This, also, seems to clearly say that while dev doesn't want warriors range dpsing, they are also wanting to make the close range danger much more manageable.

    Edit: Your post is clear and well spoken. Please don't quit because of something that is actively being worked on. The forum needs a higher quality of poster.
    Adding a 1.5s internal cd to reactive block agro building did exactly the opposite.

  8. #8
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by exLupo View Post
    The reason was that you played the Warrior calling in a way that dev had not intended. Whether or not you are pleased by this is up to you but it is a good reason. Design intent, sometimes, is more holy than player desires.

    Hopefully you'll find another game that makes you as happy as your plate wearing, short range RDPS did here. Best of luck!
    You are aware Rift is suppose to be the "Play it your way" MMORPG right?

    You are suppose to be adaptable to a major extent.

  9. #9
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goryus View Post
    There are two possibilities with Flame Spear and path of wind:

    1) Warriors were just spamming them incessantly, in which case these skills needed a small cooldown.
    2) Warriors were NOT just spamming them incessantly, in which case the small cool downs shouldn't matter to them.
    Whats the difference between spamming flamespear, and any other arch-types spamming their ranged abilities?

    Only one real difference, graphical. A tank throwing out fireballs instead of arrows seems to offend people.

  10. #10
    Ascendant exLupo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enochian View Post
    You are aware Rift is suppose to be the "Play it your way" MMORPG right?

    You are suppose to be adaptable to a major extent.
    @ICD: Yea, it didn't help. Their point is changing the encounters to match what they want classes to be, not the other way around. Just give it time.

    And it is the "play your way" up to a point. Devs have a responsibility of shaping the product as they see fit and if they don't want warriors to have a RDPS option then that's their choice. The classes are still very adaptable. Warriors can spec to have a degree of ranged flexibility. Still being able to maintain some degree of outbound damage while stepping briefly out to avoid fight mechanics. With what Trion has said and shown, if you have to stand out long enough where it ruins your melee role then the encounter is broken, not the class. They've shown intent to fix those encounters but, first, they have to get classes set up the way they want.
    There is no better cause to fight than the simple need that blood be spilled. Do not fight because you receive reward or praise. Fight because that other bastard exists solely to die at the end of your blade.

  11. #11
    Rift Master Dankshasta's Avatar
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    Path of the Wind was broke as hell man. How do you not see that? What if a rogue or cleric was hitting you for 900-1100 every GCD? Unbelievable the way some people see things only the way they want. It's like a forum full of sociopaths.
    Quote Originally Posted by Seether View Post
    I need 900 valor, and a healer to kill Dankshasta
    "How do i pwn so good?"

    DARKFALL PvP!!

  12. #12
    Telaran DwsPrime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enochian View Post
    You are aware Rift is suppose to be the "Play it your way" MMORPG right?

    You are suppose to be adaptable to a major extent.
    I agree and and I think the OP conveyed my sentiments exactly; Well said.

    Why do we have to think of any soul as this or that. 51 points Reavers tank, ok I get that but a Riftblade/reaver was a Spell-sword. *sigh* Ok I will stop QQ'ing. What is done is done. I just really enjoyed it being so different and it was fun while it lasted.
    playing since Beta on DwsPrime aka PrimeTime and now aka PrimusMaximus

  13. #13
    Champion of Telara Leggomyeggolas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enochian View Post
    You are aware Rift is suppose to be the "Play it your way" MMORPG right?

    You are suppose to be adaptable to a major extent.
    exactly. i'm quiting because i can't play as a cloth wearing melee toon with a 2 handed axe!!!

    what's funny is the people who complain about "the playstyle i like is gone" when there are three classes that still have ranged playstyles, they just don't wear plate...
    Last edited by Leggomyeggolas; 03-30-2011 at 02:53 PM.

  14. #14
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dankshasta View Post
    It's like a forum full of sociopaths.

    Correction: it *is* a forum full of sociopaths.

    A good deal of mmo players exhibit sociopath tendencies while playing their game of choice, and unfortunately, they take that same attitude to the official forums for that game.

    Online multiplayer games are a good reminder about how close to the surface our true nature really is, and how the only thing keeping it in check are physical things like eye contact, body language, and social dependence.

    Remove those things, and many simply revert to their selfish animal side.

  15. #15
    Rift Master Dankshasta's Avatar
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    I don't see what the big deal is. I really do pick classes because i like the play style, and in this game there are only 4 archetypes, and lvling is so easy. I've already got a 44 warrior and a 50 rogue PvP rank 4. I'm not saying thats a big deal, I'm saying if people really want to be able to "do everything" and "fill every role" just take a week and roll another toon. THERE ARE ONLY FOUR CALLINGS, you can have them all easily. It's not Eq2 with 24 freaking classes that each take a month minimum to lvl ( I <3 S. Hartsman) it's just four, in a game with easy leveling.

    I want balance, and I want balance that makes sense, not balance where every archetype has a top dps spec that does what every other classes dps does. I mean we got different armour types, buffs, reactives, armour, health, HEALS (even little ones) CCs, gap closers, CC breaks, AOEs, that all factor into balance. With only four classes make people reroll an alt if they want to do everything, and just balance for competitive PvP.
    Quote Originally Posted by Seether View Post
    I need 900 valor, and a healer to kill Dankshasta
    "How do i pwn so good?"

    DARKFALL PvP!!

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