+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 14 of 14

Thread: Solving a pvp problem for a pet class?

  1. #1
    Shadowlander
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    26

    Default Solving a pvp problem for a pet class?

    I was reading a bit about frustrations with pet classes having difficulty in pvp because their pet cnnot act as a tant or aggro deterrent to a human controlled combatant.

    M favorite class is a elemental summoning mage, i've played verything really but I love these classes. I dont pvp much with them and for this reason but i thought of an ability of the EQ conjuror called Plane shift, which made their current pet into a behemoth of sorts, extremely more powerful for one minute. I liked to call it bringing out the Mega Pet. First off I wan to throw in my support for an ability like this, it makes things so much fun.

    Anyway Here is the idea: Would an ability to infuse yourself with whatever you have summoned be a good idea? Let's say you have a tank pet out. It's having fun tanking but then, a very powerful mob jumps on you and there's no way of winning. So you infuse the pet to you and in doing so you add the defensive abilities and the life force your pet had to your own character, like a temporary shield that cannot be replentished. Same for a dps pet; say you wanted to burn something down and your pet was not being very effective, so you infuse it and gain the pet's damage potential added to your own spells.

    This would allow a pvp fight to be somewhat solved with a pet using class like the elementalist. They could have their pet's abilities, but not have to somehow find a way to make a controlled npc minion viable in pvp combat.

  2. #2
    Official Rift Founding Fan Site Operator Sornin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Vancouver, BC
    Posts
    391

    Default

    That sounds fine to me. In fact, I seem to recall something just like this for the Warlock in World of Warcraft, but I stopped playing so long ago I could be wrong. I think I used to be able to sacrifice my Voidwalker for some temporary invulnerability or something.

    Anyway, bear in mind that while pets may not always be super effective in PvP, and controlling them while engaging in a difficult fight with a thinking opponent is tough, one of the most overlooked advantages is simply being able to throw a body on a mage or healer. The pet may not do much, but it can interrupt or extend casts, and just generally be a nuisance.

    It really comes down to how much the pet factors into the power of the class, too. If the pet is 50% of one's DPS, then it is important for it to be a large factor in PvP. It remains to be seen just how integral pets will be to their masters in Rift.

  3. #3
    Plane Walker Fayde's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    385

    Default

    That just sounds like you wish to change the pet in to a Buff that is not going to do any thing.

    The simple way to make pet class work better is fairly simple.

    The enrage systerm enemy just runs past pet each hit builds the pets range it gets stronger and faster so you can not just over look it and it will stay till killed on the enemy it was attacking if the master is killed.

    After some time people will learn notto over look the pet or have a massive ball of rage beating the crap out of them and god forbid a healer is droping the bomb on the master as the pet is gona enrage like madas you try to kill him.

    The there is back stuns if the pet i attacking form behind it mini stunsquite abit to make it hard for the enemy to just run past it or risk geting stuned alot of the time tho needs to be a mini stun and not a real stun or 2-3 pets could stun lock tho 2-3 people on any 1 class should be a fairly easy kill.

    Then we can do the pass damage/soul link where about 50-75% of the damage is taken by the pet if there with in x range.

    The pet could have some minor CC snare roots kockdowns to get the enemy off the master for a short time to allow it to attack and maybe scare them off or kill them.

    There is all ways the DAOC way and have the master as unkillable till there pet is dead or tweak it so they take like 99% less damage.
    Last edited by Fayde; 07-11-2010 at 02:31 AM.
    Death is great people are dying to get there.

    Death is great it's the cure to Life.

  4. #4
    Champion of Telara Elth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    1,131

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Solveri View Post
    I was reading a bit about frustrations with pet classes having difficulty in pvp because their pet cnnot act as a tant or aggro deterrent to a human controlled combatant.

    M favorite class is a elemental summoning mage, i've played verything really but I love these classes. I dont pvp much with them and for this reason but i thought of an ability of the EQ conjuror called Plane shift, which made their current pet into a behemoth of sorts, extremely more powerful for one minute. I liked to call it bringing out the Mega Pet. First off I wan to throw in my support for an ability like this, it makes things so much fun.

    Anyway Here is the idea: Would an ability to infuse yourself with whatever you have summoned be a good idea? Let's say you have a tank pet out. It's having fun tanking but then, a very powerful mob jumps on you and there's no way of winning. So you infuse the pet to you and in doing so you add the defensive abilities and the life force your pet had to your own character, like a temporary shield that cannot be replentished. Same for a dps pet; say you wanted to burn something down and your pet was not being very effective, so you infuse it and gain the pet's damage potential added to your own spells.

    This would allow a pvp fight to be somewhat solved with a pet using class like the elementalist. They could have their pet's abilities, but not have to somehow find a way to make a controlled npc minion viable in pvp combat.
    Sounds something like one of the squig herders abilities in warhammer. They could summon a tough squig that would swallow the goblin and he would basically wear it like a suit of armor. Pretty fun stuff.

    I could picture something similar with an Elementalist. A Earth Elemental ability where the elemental absorbs the mage into itself and the mage gets active control of the elemental trudging around pummeling anyone in its path. To balance it the mage would not be able to cast spells from within the elemental, but he would have tough rock protecting him and do decent melee damage.

  5. #5
    Champion of Telara Ancient's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Ontario
    Posts
    1,199

    Default

    DAoC Thuergist anyone? Fire and forget pets, one for each element. The Air ones were the worst with that mini stun. If you get 9 of them chasing you around there is no way to get to your target.

  6. #6
    Ascendant Elladar's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Graveyard
    Posts
    2,675

    Default

    Or you could make it even simpler. Make pet class receive 90% less damage from all attacks while the pet is up and running, thus this will force enemies|human players to focus on killing pet first before moving on to the caster... Hmm this has made me think of a "Nut". Crack the shell [kill the pet] to get to the tasty part [in this case pet master himself].
    I don't need to "Get a life."! I'm a Gamer! I have loads of Lifes! - - - Necromancy - happiness is an army of unstoppable, loyal, killing machines.

  7. #7
    Shadowlander
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    26

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fayde View Post
    That just sounds like you wish to change the pet in to a Buff that is not going to do any thing.

    The simple way to make pet class work better is fairly simple.

    The enrage systerm enemy just runs past pet each hit builds the pets range it gets stronger and faster so you can not just over look it and it will stay till killed on the enemy it was attacking if the master is killed.

    After some time people will learn notto over look the pet or have a massive ball of rage beating the crap out of them and god forbid a healer is droping the bomb on the master as the pet is gona enrage like madas you try to kill him.

    The there is back stuns if the pet i attacking form behind it mini stunsquite abit to make it hard for the enemy to just run past it or risk geting stuned alot of the time tho needs to be a mini stun and not a real stun or 2-3 pets could stun lock tho 2-3 people on any 1 class should be a fairly easy kill.

    Then we can do the pass damage/soul link where about 50-75% of the damage is taken by the pet if there with in x range.

    The pet could have some minor CC snare roots kockdowns to get the enemy off the master for a short time to allow it to attack and maybe scare them off or kill them.

    There is all ways the DAOC way and have the master as unkillable till there pet is dead or tweak it so they take like 99% less damage.
    This seems like we would be adding things that could tweak the elementalist into a class that could exploit those things readily. If you had to kill an elementalists' pet before you coul harm the mage itself, it stops being a pvp game and a hide the pet game. I'd park my pet 8 stories high on a tree or invis it or set it behind some rocks and basically make myself invincible.

    What i'm suggesting takes a bit of power away from the elementalist, in that you cant use your pet as a aggro shield you can heal. You have to give up the pet for a buff that would allow you to withstand a tank coming straight at you for the kill. This doesn't introduce any ability that would giv the mage an unfair advantage and forces the other player to chew through the essence of the pet before it gets to the mage.

    It sounds like a coding nightmare to add a pvp special instance where your pet could all of the sudden turn into something that stuns, enrages, snares, takes away your birthday and gives the summoner an invulnerability. And moreso if this was the normal case of things. If your pet had this power to do this to NPCs, I would just frontload on a NPC, keep the aggro on me because i'd be untouchable, and then the only possible thing that could slow me down would be my mana bar.

    My idea takes away that pet, gives you it's strengths in the form of a buff, still keeps you relatively the same power as you were before (gives you an added ability to flee with more survivability but oh well) and you dont just get to pop your pet back out so you cannot exploit a shield of sorts.

    Now people would have a choice, instead of being forced to kill a pet first. They could ambush a mage, having the choice of going after the pet first so a mage could not gain a sacrifice/infuse buff or burning down that mage before he could react in time to shield himself. Strategy is involved, not much on the side of exploiting a pet could be made and mages have a fun new way to augment themselves, especially on raid bosses where raids prefer pets to be dismissed.

    If it were the other way where a pet gave his master invulnerability, expect me to be playing one, hiding my pet across the map and sitting out in the middle of a big bull's eye made from the corpses of people who thought i hadn't summoned out my guardian yet... =p

  8. #8
    Prophet of Telara Skythe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Candy moutain
    Posts
    1,025

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Elladar View Post
    Or you could make it even simpler. Make pet class receive 90% less damage from all attacks while the pet is up and running, thus this will force enemies|human players to focus on killing pet first before moving on to the caster... Hmm this has made me think of a "Nut". Crack the shell [kill the pet] to get to the tasty part [in this case pet master himself].
    Awesome. How about an ability (since we ARE straying away from pet territory) that summons some sort of a big pet/vehicle thingy AROUND you, kinda like WoW vehicles only you can still cast your own spells while it casts its own pet ones. Hurray for stuff.
    It is an ironic habit of human beings to run faster when we have lost our way.
    -Me? I am Someone, Somebody. Anybody. Anyone.

  9. #9
    Champion of Telara g0kuenuan's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Romania
    Posts
    1,216

    Default

    aion failed here too, the SM did not have a flying pet, in the air the SM was nothing but a 10 times weaker Sorc

  10. #10
    Champion of Telara Nightbringer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Overthere
    Posts
    1,201

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Skythe View Post
    Awesome. How about an ability (since we ARE straying away from pet territory) that summons some sort of a big pet/vehicle thingy AROUND you, kinda like WoW vehicles only you can still cast your own spells while it casts its own pet ones. Hurray for stuff.
    Well, since the Defiant are technologically inclined. How about a soul that creates and uses Steampunk style armor? Would that satisfy you? It could have its own automated offensive and defensive capabilities in addition to those of the technomancer.

    It could qualify as a pet class as well, by having crafted steampunk style robotic pets. These pet are created via tradeskill but are animated and controlled via the technomancer spirit tree. Destruction of either the armor or the pet would require a new one to be used. Power of the armor and the pets is determined by both the power of the technomancer and the power of the crafted item. Certain powerful, difficult to acquire, components could be salvaged by the technomancer after item destruction.

  11. #11
    Telaran
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    74

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by g0kuenuan View Post
    aion failed here too, the SM did not have a flying pet, in the air the SM was nothing but a 10 times weaker Sorc
    They do now - but they still fail as a pet class. Only about 20-30% of the class' damage comes directly from the pet (its really stupid, that even the pet abilities have to be triggered by the summoner - you cast a spell with your own mana, and the pet uses some skill as a result - this can not be called a pet skill, and so the damage inflicted was not done by the pet).
    No pet class should end up like that; pets should not be a walking DoT, they should be the 90-100% of the class' damage output.

    I don't really see the big problem pet classes supposedly have in pvp situations. Most of all the mmorpgs I have played, pet classes were some of the best pvpers in 1v1 situations. Most of the crying came (and always will) from new players who failed to figure out how to play their class.

    Allow the summoner to aid the pet with long term buffs (20-30 mins) and pet heals. Give them some weak self heals and an ability to transfer 50% of the damage recieved to the summon. At this point, if there is any pet or summoner ability to slow down the opponent, so the pet can't be kited (or just make some ranged pets too), the class is set.

  12. #12
    Plane Walker Fayde's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    385

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Solveri View Post
    This seems like we would be adding things that could tweak the elementalist into a class that could exploit those things readily. If you had to kill an elementalists' pet before you coul harm the mage itself, it stops being a pvp game and a hide the pet game. I'd park my pet 8 stories high on a tree or invis it or set it behind some rocks and basically make myself invincible.

    What i'm suggesting takes a bit of power away from the elementalist, in that you cant use your pet as a aggro shield you can heal. You have to give up the pet for a buff that would allow you to withstand a tank coming straight at you for the kill. This doesn't introduce any ability that would giv the mage an unfair advantage and forces the other player to chew through the essence of the pet before it gets to the mage.

    It sounds like a coding nightmare to add a pvp special instance where your pet could all of the sudden turn into something that stuns, enrages, snares, takes away your birthday and gives the summoner an invulnerability. And moreso if this was the normal case of things. If your pet had this power to do this to NPCs, I would just frontload on a NPC, keep the aggro on me because i'd be untouchable, and then the only possible thing that could slow me down would be my mana bar.

    My idea takes away that pet, gives you it's strengths in the form of a buff, still keeps you relatively the same power as you were before (gives you an added ability to flee with more survivability but oh well) and you dont just get to pop your pet back out so you cannot exploit a shield of sorts.

    Now people would have a choice, instead of being forced to kill a pet first. They could ambush a mage, having the choice of going after the pet first so a mage could not gain a sacrifice/infuse buff or burning down that mage before he could react in time to shield himself. Strategy is involved, not much on the side of exploiting a pet could be made and mages have a fun new way to augment themselves, especially on raid bosses where raids prefer pets to be dismissed.

    If it were the other way where a pet gave his master invulnerability, expect me to be playing one, hiding my pet across the map and sitting out in the middle of a big bull's eye made from the corpses of people who thought i hadn't summoned out my guardian yet... =p
    That is why you have a tag range as with every other pet in every mmo there is a max range that it can go form you before it will auto return to master or just vanish.

    I am not a fan of the pet just becoming a buff to the player that just turns you in to a basic caster with a walking buff.

    As for Aion its so Ironic the whole flying thing is a key point yet it kills the game balance and you can not fly in many area's of the game to start with.

    Aion did some things right but most of it was back up by poor planing and there trying hard to fix it so they might dont think they will get it right.
    Last edited by Fayde; 07-12-2010 at 03:27 AM.
    Death is great people are dying to get there.

    Death is great it's the cure to Life.

  13. #13
    Ascendant Hanlo's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Nightmares
    Posts
    2,729

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ancient View Post
    DAoC Thuergist anyone? Fire and forget pets, one for each element. The Air ones were the worst with that mini stun. If you get 9 of them chasing you around there is no way to get to your target.


    Yes, they are extremely annoying.

    Want a Melee Mage? Support the Theurgist!

  14. #14
    Rift Disciple
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    146

    Default

    I do not think there will be that huge of a problem pvp with pet classes with the way these soul trees work. Just think of the ways you could spec that give your class abilities that enable you to hold your own in close/near close combat. A lot of those ideals are really good but i think would only be plausible if you had to spec really deep into that class making it your single soul which in turn would mean you'd probably have to rely very heavily upon that pet.

+ Reply to Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts