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Thread: mana burn

  1. #16
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiberius1 View Post
    ^^ Someone with a brain and actually uses it!

    Mana drain is way overboard in this game. At worst it should knock off 1/3 of the mana bar and be on a 30 - 45 sec CD. Totally disabling a class with one ability in a few seconds is completely stupid. This has to be changed.
    I play a cleric and you are blowing this way out of proportion. It is no worse than healing debuffs, blast charges, champion 2h crits, rogue stuns, or anything else. It is something you have to deal with. Carry stacks of water... Compared to some other mmorpgs, it is actually fairly quick to get out of LOS and out of combat in this game. 2 seconds of drinking puts you back at full.

    Heavy dominators will NOT give chase. Every one I have seen is a backline ranged attack. Stay back from the fight, while still in range of heals, and you will usually be out of their range anyway. If they come close enough to hit you, they will also be in the middle of your melee clasess. Dominators blow up QUICK.

    In fact, you can usually just silence them and hit them with a couple of water jets to make them scurry away. I haven't found this to be anything more than an annoyance.

    Clerics do get the short end of the stick in terms of mana dependency, but honestly no other class in the game is as pivotal to the success of their team. None. The cleric is not a 1v1 monster in this game, but they are gods in team battles. If you find yourself a team of 5 regular players and work together in ventrilo, you will be amazed at what you can accomplish. I play a cleric in a regular group that consists of 2 clerics and 2 warriors and we do great in battlefronts.

  2. #17
    Plane Touched
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    the only thing that stops a cl;eric from running headfirst into the fray is when his mana is draining and he starts to back up..if you can put that kind of pressure to a cleric then you can kill em. and as a dom i cant even kill him with my crazy dps LOL...so i pressure him not to heal his teammates..p[erfect CC tbh.

    Once i am targeted as a dom i get focus fired from that time on..its the reason you dont see many dom speced 100 speced doms..ccompared to half the team having clerics..your lucky not everyone is hip to the abilities of a good DOM. or elsee that would bne the fotm like warriors and clerics are

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gradient View Post
    Just casting about 6 group heals ****s up your manabar so badly you probably have to commit suicide to get your character working again. When you add mana drain ontop you get the situation where the few clerics in top warfronts are dps, not necessarily because they don't want to heal, just because their mana regen tools are utter garbage, their manabar is 9 times too small, and it's basically just better to leave it to bards who also don't have to deal with all the tardedly long silences.

    In around twenty 40-49 warfronts played this morning I saw 1 healing cleric.
    Warden + Ripple = group healing goodness that won't break the mana bank.

  4. #19
    Shadowlander Evilus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiberius1 View Post
    ^^ Someone with a brain and actually uses it!

    Mana drain is way overboard in this game. At worst it should knock off 1/3 of the mana bar and be on a 30 - 45 sec CD. Totally disabling a class with one ability in a few seconds is completely stupid. This has to be changed.
    Have you ever played a VK?? There is no way a VK can instantly drain a mana bard from full to empty in 5 sec. At best I can drain maybe half the bar if all skills are up. Now 2 VKs focusing the same target CAN. All the casters that whine about "feeling usless" when they sit around and let themselves be drained empty ..i feel your pain! When my champion specced warrior gets his hitpoints drained in under 5 secs by focus fire I feel worthless too

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaiusM View Post
    I play a cleric and you are blowing this way out of proportion. It is no worse than healing debuffs, blast charges, champion 2h crits, rogue stuns, or anything else. It is something you have to deal with. Carry stacks of water... Compared to some other mmorpgs, it is actually fairly quick to get out of LOS and out of combat in this game. 2 seconds of drinking puts you back at full.

    Heavy dominators will NOT give chase. Every one I have seen is a backline ranged attack. Stay back from the fight, while still in range of heals, and you will usually be out of their range anyway. If they come close enough to hit you, they will also be in the middle of your melee clasess. Dominators blow up QUICK.

    In fact, you can usually just silence them and hit them with a couple of water jets to make them scurry away. I haven't found this to be anything more than an annoyance.

    Clerics do get the short end of the stick in terms of mana dependency, but honestly no other class in the game is as pivotal to the success of their team. None. The cleric is not a 1v1 monster in this game, but they are gods in team battles. If you find yourself a team of 5 regular players and work together in ventrilo, you will be amazed at what you can accomplish. I play a cleric in a regular group that consists of 2 clerics and 2 warriors and we do great in battlefronts.
    finally someone that knows how frail a DOM spec is i mean deep into dom. we die in a second and once we squirell you lol..we cant kill you i just run away its all i have in my tool box loads of cc and no damage. all i do is harass clerics and mages, there is a reason you do not see loads of dom specs. in the 40-49 bracket you dont see healing clerics because tbh healing in this game in pvp is a chore..its terribly implemented in this game the healing mechanics at least for clerics..thats why peole want chloros in single target raids

  6. #21
    Sword of Telara Gradient's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaiusM View Post
    Warden + Ripple = group healing goodness that won't break the mana bank.
    Ripple lasts 6 seconds, and costs 200 friggin mana. i.e. 20 seconds of regen time for a 6 second temp buff.
    Last edited by Gradient; 03-09-2011 at 08:44 AM.

    Guild/Raid leader of Shoreline 5/8 ID (No reflect Rusila, hardmode Conclave) Recruiting a few more excellent raiders: for Infernal Dawn progression

  7. #22
    Prophet of Telara Banthaz's Avatar
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    1 Warrior soul that can drain the mana of 1/2 of the playable characters, but can be wtfpwnd by any melee-er.

    1 Mage soul that can lolperma-cc anyone in the game. Anyone. Indefinitely.

    Yeah, warriors are OP.

  8. #23
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gradient View Post
    Ripple lasts 6 seconds, and costs 200 friggin mana. i.e. 20 seconds of regen time for a 6 second temp buff.
    Tidal Surge, Ripple, Healing Spray, GCD, Soothing Stream, GCD, Soothing Stream, GCD, Soothing Stream. That is what you can get off in the 6 seconds. It is an incredible amount of healing for the mana spent.

  9. #24
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaiusM View Post
    Tidal Surge, Ripple, Healing Spray, GCD, Soothing Stream, GCD, Soothing Stream, GCD, Soothing Stream. That is what you can get off in the 6 seconds. It is an incredible amount of healing for the mana spent.
    Not taking spellpower into account and taking into account 10% reduced mana costs from my build, this is the math at level 28.

    Tidal Surge 28 Mana
    Ripple 133 mana
    Healing Spray 409 * 1.5 = 613 hp @ 29 mana
    3 stacks of Soothing Stream 115 * 3 = 345 hp @ 23 * 3 = 84 mana

    That is 958 hp over 12 seconds to 6 targets for 274 mana. If you hit 6 people that is a total healing of 5748. Heal/Mana ratio of 1 to 21.

    Again this is the lowest possible number as crits and spellpower wasn't taking into account.

  10. #25
    Telaran
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    Conversely, Healing Communion heals 10 people for 192 at a cost of 193 mana. (Same 10% reduction applied.)

    If you hit 10 people that is 1920 hp healed for 193 mana, which is a heal/mana of 10 to 1. So, even though ripple looks expensive, it is twice as efficient.

    It does heal 4 less targets, but for a lot more.

  11. #26
    Telaran
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    This is my build at 28 for anyone interested.

    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=00ejx.tEbzoz.xoq.x

  12. #27
    Rift Disciple
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    Give my VK spammable discharge at its previous damage and you can take my mana drain

  13. #28
    Plane Touched
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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenixfire82 View Post
    except for the part where pvp is overflowing with healing clerics? a properly spec'd cleric is a walking deity with nothing to counter it other than mana bar pressure. more mana drains in game asap, imo.
    You're beyond ******ed, there's way more than enough cc and burst dps in this game to counter clerics, they don't need to have infinite mana burning souls to completely negate them. People that want this to stay in this game really don't want balance, they just want to be able to kill everyone in 2-5 seconds and switch to the next target.
    Killing people with logic since 1997 UO (The first true 3D MMO that wasn't WOW.).

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaiusM View Post
    That is 958 hp over 12 seconds to 6 targets for 274 mana. If you hit 6 people that is a total healing of 5748. Heal/Mana ratio of 1 to 21.
    That should be Heal/Mana ratio of 21 to 1.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Groobie View Post
    The mana burn mechanic is precisely what has me afraid of leveling my cleric for pvp healing. I generally hate mana burns period, but I understand that they have places -- I wouldn't mind if they were used as tools in long fights, such that you force the cleric to manage his mana better. As it is now, it sounds like you can make a cleric instantly useless if they're anywhere near a VK or dominator, which just isn't fun.

    If clerics truly are OP when mana drains aren't present (and I don't know if they are), then I think the better solution would be to figure out alternative ways to balance them. While mana drains might work, they're far from fun and seem out of place in their current implementation.
    They're not OPd in their current implementation, it's just ***** talking **** out of their *****, as always. People that want to be able to kill everyone and their mom with 2-3 skills and if they can't, then healing is OPd. Clerics have enough problems as is with the burst damage, cc's with high durations, and the already high mana costs of their skills (With a very low mana regen rate.) in this game.
    Last edited by Empathetic; 03-09-2011 at 09:26 AM.
    Killing people with logic since 1997 UO (The first true 3D MMO that wasn't WOW.).

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