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Thread: Want to fix mages? remove the dominator soul.

  1. #1
    Plane Touched
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    Lightbulb Want to fix mages? remove the dominator soul.

    And roll its benefits into the other mage souls.

    At this time Dominator is an extremely powerfull soul in PvP and I would say that its actualy pretty OP, while the other souls suffer from a lack of CC or viability outside of stationary casting.

    So how do you do this ? (definatly not the exact changes that should be made but along those lines)

    1) Make Transmo a baseline skill for all mages (like the rogue passive that lets them switch weapon automaticaly based on their range to the target). Any decent mage will already pick dominator as the 3rd empty soul set past 30 anyway since the pets stop scaling and the other souls 0pts skills are pretty much just clones of each other.

    2) Take an existing soul passive/active in another soul tree and fuse it with another or roll its benefits in the skills already and put one of the dominator passive/active it its place.
    - For example : Chloromancers could go something like this : Make Ruin a 6pts spell instead of 14, make natures touch a 14pts spell instead of one gotten from the tree, replace natures touch with arresting presence and remove call of spring (It's mostly bugged useless anyway) and replace it with empowered presence.
    - Another example that would help warlock be more viable in both PvP and PvE (outside of grinding) would be to ship over Durable control and make it affect fear spells and give them the mana wrench spell (but put it deep down into the warlock soul) and change it so it spreads the mana gained to other party/raid members when the warlocks mana bar is full. (this would also give cleric a second wind in PvP after being drained empty).

    3) This would add overall a lot more viability to all the mage souls in PvP without forcing them to go at least 20 into Dominator.

    4) Discuss.
    Last edited by Kitsurin; 03-02-2011 at 05:10 PM.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitsurin View Post
    And roll its benefits into the other mage souls.

    At this time Dominator is an extremely powerfull soul in PvP and I would say that its actualy pretty OP, while the other souls suffer from a lack of CC or viability outside of stationary casting.

    So how do you do this ? (definatly not the exact changes that should be made but along those lines)

    1) Make Transmo a baseline skill for all mages (like the rogue passive that lets them switch weapon automaticaly based on their range to the target). Any decent mage will already pick dominator as the 3rd empty soul set past 30 anyway since the pets stop scaling and the other souls 0pts skills are pretty much just clones of each other.

    2) Take an existing soul passive/active in another soul tree and fuse it with another or roll its benefits in the skills already and put one of the dominator passive/active it its place.
    - For example : Chloromancers could go something like this : Make Ruin a 6pts spell instead of 14, make natures touch a 14pts spell instead of one gotten from the tree, replace natures touch with arresting presence and remove call of spring (It's mostly bugged useless anyway) and replace it with empowered presence.
    - Another example that would help warlock be more viable in both PvP and PvE (outside of grinding) would be to ship over Durable control and make it affect fear spells and give them the mana wrench spell (but put it deep down into the warlock soul) and change it so it spreads the mana gained to other party/raid members when the warlocks mana bar is full. (this would also give cleric a second wind in PvP after being drained empty).

    3) This would add overall a lot more viability to all the mage souls in PvP without forcing them to go at least 20 into Dominator.

    4) Discuss.



    I've really missed CC focused mages since EQ 1 enchanters, and would be really sad if I lost my dominator soul. I also think that every single mage spec CC chain killing people with fire/lightning to the face would make the game a lot less fun and more like wow in a bad way.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by dozey View Post
    I've really missed CC focused mages since EQ 1 enchanters, and would be really sad if I lost my dominator soul. I also think that every single mage spec CC chain killing people with fire/lightning to the face would make the game a lot less fun and more like wow in a bad way.
    I didn't say give everyone EVERYTHING from the dom soul. Just enough to get by. As of now if you have Dom at 20 or so you'll do great in PvP but if you forgot to get insta transmo you're dead meat the moment any physical DPS sets its eyes on you. (And it's not like physical classes don't get their share of CC and anti caster moves in all their souls).

  4. #4
    Plane Walker Ironfungus's Avatar
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    The Dominator soul is completely pointless, in my honest opinion. PvE doesn't currently need any Crowd Control, and concerning PvP, adding CC talents into other trees would be the best option. The Dominator is just an awkward soul that wasn't well thought out enough.

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    I think its fine because certain souls will be more pve oriented and some will be pvp oriented and ofc there will be cookie cutter specs. It's impossible to make every soul or combo of souls work well in both pve and pvp.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Netherblood View Post
    I think its fine because certain souls will be more pve oriented and some will be pvp oriented and ofc there will be cookie cutter specs. It's impossible to make every soul or combo of souls work well in both pve and pvp.
    It would allow for more of them. As of now every PvP mage build must be 20Dom/X/X(Probably Arch) that doesn't leave much to the imagination which ruins the main point of this game. While other classes get a lot more variety in the souls they can take to PvP with.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitsurin View Post
    I didn't say give everyone EVERYTHING from the dom soul. Just enough to get by. As of now if you have Dom at 20 or so you'll do great in PvP but if you forgot to get insta transmo you're dead meat the moment any physical DPS sets its eyes on you. (And it's not like physical classes don't get their share of CC and anti caster moves in all their souls).
    yes but requiring 20 points prevents things like getting the 51 points talent in pyromancer, which if you DO have that group with rogues/warriors with CC is actually more useful. Dom is useful when you have little or no CC from other people. I like that. I like that there are reasons you do things besides farm the dps meters.

    For the record Dom is extremely useful in dungeons, not because you CAN'T do it without them, but because they increase effectiveness and killing speed for the whole group so much. They're like the mage bard spec, but instead of healing peeps and buffing group stats you can debuff mobs and cause stuff you're not focusing yet to stop stealing extra mana from the healer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dozey View Post
    yes but requiring 20 points prevents things like getting the 51 points talent in pyromancer, which if you DO have that group with rogues/warriors with CC is actually more useful. Dom is useful when you have little or no CC from other people. I like that. I like that there are reasons you do things besides farm the dps meters.

    For the record Dom is extremely useful in dungeons, not because you CAN'T do it without them, but because they increase effectiveness and killing speed for the whole group so much. They're like the mage bard spec, but instead of healing peeps and buffing group stats you can debuff mobs and cause stuff you're not focusing yet to stop stealing extra mana from the healer.
    I can't make out your first point.. Would it be bad to allow Pyros to get their 51pts for PvP? And i'm talking about survivability without being forced into those 20pts.

    Dom is only usefull on trash mobs most of their skills straight up don't work on more important mobs and bosses. Any mage can, and already should, get Transmo if they PvE because its a 0pts spell and they won't get any other benefical 0pts skills past lvl 30.
    Last edited by Kitsurin; 03-02-2011 at 05:33 PM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitsurin View Post
    I can't make out your first point.. Would it be bad to allow Pyros to get their 51pts for PvP? And i'm talking about survivability without being forced into those 20pts.

    Dom is only usefull on trash mobs most of their skills straight up don't work on more important mobs and bosses. Any mage can, and already should, get Transmo if they PvE because its a 0pts spell and they won't get any other benefical 0pts skills past lvl 30.
    radiant spores is also a useful 0.


    and my point was that it forces a choice. you get insta squirrel with no cooldown and lowered resist chance + the ability to have it last through a little bit of damage. You also get 50% damage to the CC breaking ability. OR you can grab a no cost CD that does rediculous damage in pyro. Both can be valid in different situations. If your group can protect you, you might be better off in arch or elemental for even more damage buffs. Dom is just almost required for mage one on one, in any group setting your groupmates should be able to protect you. The game is not balanced for one on one, group pvp games NEVER are.


    edit: i'm also aware the pugs will rarely protect you. That's a end user error on their part, not on an inherent problem with the game. If your team does't do basic needed role jobs, it's not your classes fault you're losing.


    edit2: apparently (and this is primarily from unreliable sources like computer games magazine previews) in raid situations you will hard pressed to make progress without crowd control.
    Last edited by dozey; 03-02-2011 at 05:47 PM.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironfungus View Post
    The Dominator soul is completely pointless, in my honest opinion. PvE doesn't currently need any Crowd Control, and concerning PvP, adding CC talents into other trees would be the best option. The Dominator is just an awkward soul that wasn't well thought out enough.
    Dominator is great, if you don't like it then don't play it but don't come tell us they need to just remove it and distribute its abilities across the other souls.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitsurin View Post
    1) Make Transmo a baseline skill for all mages (like the rogue passive that lets them switch weapon automaticaly based on their range to the target). Any decent mage will already pick dominator as the 3rd empty soul set past 30 anyway since the pets stop scaling and the other souls 0pts skills are pretty much just clones of each other.
    There are no baseline skills in this game. Please stop trying to turn it into whatever game you came from.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kitsurin View Post
    2) Take an existing soul passive/active in another soul tree and fuse it with another or roll its benefits in the skills already and put one of the dominator passive/active it its place.
    - For example : Chloromancers could go something like this : Make Ruin a 6pts spell instead of 14, make natures touch a 14pts spell instead of one gotten from the tree, replace natures touch with arresting presence and remove call of spring (It's mostly bugged useless anyway) and replace it with empowered presence.
    - Another example that would help warlock be more viable in both PvP and PvE (outside of grinding) would be to ship over Durable control and make it affect fear spells and give them the mana wrench spell (but put it deep down into the warlock soul) and change it so it spreads the mana gained to other party/raid members when the warlocks mana bar is full. (this would also give cleric a second wind in PvP after being drained empty).

    3) This would add overall a lot more viability to all the mage souls in PvP without forcing them to go at least 20 into Dominator.

    4) Discuss.
    How about instead of making mage the only calling in the game with only 6 souls, we just leave dom the way it is and make the other mage souls good enough to be attractive in PvP so mages have a choice?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lmaoboat View Post
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  12. #12
    Plane Touched Lawlumad's Avatar
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    To fix mages: Make Archon (best candidate) a melee soul.
    I have witnessed what you have committed in that area.

    "Never violate a woman, nor harm a child. Do not lie, cheat or steal. These things are for lesser men. Protect the weak against the evil strong. And never allow thoughts of gain to lead you into the pursuit of evil"

    The Code of Druss the Legend

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Netherblood View Post
    I think its fine because certain souls will be more pve oriented and some will be pvp oriented and ofc there will be cookie cutter specs. It's impossible to make every soul or combo of souls work well in both pve and pvp.
    I hear this argument frequently, but I just find it strange that the Dominator is the only "non-PvP" soul that is basically only useful for PvP...


    Quote Originally Posted by Nonsensei436 View Post
    There are no baseline skills in this game. Please stop trying to turn it into whatever game you came from.
    He said that not EVERY mage soul to have the same CC ability.

    But still let's not forget that a lot of souls within a single have redundant abilities... melee DPS rogues all have an identical Sap-like ability.
    Last edited by Wenry; 03-02-2011 at 08:10 PM.

  14. #14
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    I agree with the OP. Every soul should only have 1 ability. That ability would be an instant cast pbaoe that did air damage.

    That should fix pvp and make everyone equal.

  15. #15
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    This is a bad idea that will never happen.

    If you want CC then spec for it. I'm tired of hearing players that want everything. Rift is about sacrifice. If you play a 51 pyro don't cry on the forums that you lack in other areas.

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